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Freeform orders Marvel's Cloak and Dagger series

So, Connors is a good guy now? We'll see how long that lasts.

And this entire past episode was all a dream. Towards the end, when she broke out of the ambulance, and then they went and cornered Andre with the cops outside, I was thinking "wow, they really wrapped this storyline up quickly". And then a minute later I was like "ohhhh, I get it now".

One question: is Andre the MCU version of D'Spayre?
 
One question: is Andre the MCU version of D'Spayre?

Looks like he was, since the video game Ty & Tandy played in the mindspace/whatever was named for D'Spayre.

This show is losing me. It's spending most of its time in this surreal realm of symbols, and what's actually going on in real-world terms is unclear. It's strange that the "record store" setting exists both inside Andre's mind and within Ty's Darkforce dimension, with the show not seeming to care about the distinction between the two, if any. I guess maybe Andre's linked to it because he got his powers from the same source as T&T, though that hasn't been adequately explained in-story, so it feels arbitrary.

I just don't care for the fantasy/mystical/surreal turn this show has taken. Granted, magic and supernatural phenomena are an established part of the MCU by now, but the movies and Agents of SHIELD have consistently presented them as just a form of science we don't understand yet, an alternative metaphor for harnessing the physical forces of the universe. C&D treats it in a more mystical, pure-fantasy way that doesn't feel like a good fit to the other shows. And it's just annoying to me to try to parse all these weird symbolic and pretentiously arty sequences.

What really lost me, though, is where they took Ty's mother this week, having her give in to revenge. And I was confused by the ending, but it looked like they were implying that Tandy's mother killed herself? On top of that, you had the teenaged Evita suddenly being forced to become a vodoun priestess and "marry" a loa against her will, which feels like a kind of rape even if it's only a symbolic marriage. Anyway, it just went to an unpleasantly dark place for multiple characters all at once and it was a real turnoff. I'm not sure I even want to watch the remaining two episodes.

One cute touch: The video game exposition about Ty & Tandy's characters being "injected with radioactive heroin" was a snarky nod to their origin in the comics. Although the drug in the comics that gave them their powers (or activated their latent mutant powers in the retcon, until they were retconned as not being mutants) wasn't radioactive, but was a "hybrid of heroin and crack" called Darklight or D-Lite.
 
I really liked this week's episode, however it definitely went some places that I'm not sold on. Hopefully these choices will be justified and pay off in future episodes.

What really lost me, though, is where they took Ty's mother this week, having her give in to revenge. And I was confused by the ending, but it looked like they were implying that Tandy's mother killed herself? On top of that, you had the teenaged Evita suddenly being forced to become a vodoun priestess and "marry" a loa against her will, which feels like a kind of rape even if it's only a symbolic marriage.

Yeah, I immediately thought the same about Evita. Not pleasant. Also agreed about Ty's mother. While we were shown that she was struggling with what to do, I'm very surprised that she chose that path. I would imagine there will be some kind of consequences for her.

That said, I really did like this episode as a whole. The beats hit, I don't mind the mystical vodoun stuff, and I really do love the general production design of the show. I can even stomach the strange dreamspace sharing between Ty and Andre, though it's more than just them, because we've seen multiple loa in that space too.

It's weird. I really didn't like that stuff I'm agreeing with you about, and yet still I really loved this episode as a whole. Go figure.
 
I don't give up on shows easily, so I decided to go ahead and watch this week after all, and it was much better than last week. I still don't care for this season taking place mostly in some symbolic mindscape (devoting so much screen time to that one record-store set week after week is a pretty blatant budget-saver, for one thing), but we did get to see Ty & Tandy step up and choose to be heroes in their own ways, and it was much more satisfying than seeing Ty's mother sink into revenge last week.

And it was nice to see Ty and that other kid talking about Luke Cage and how he's a role model for them (although that maybe means this takes place before the end of LC season 2). I appreciate those interconnections when they happen, and this one was more organic than Bridget saying "Oh, I happen to use the same very idiosyncratic note-taking method as Ben Urich back in Daredevil season 1."
 
Liked the Luke Cage hero-worship. It felt like more than just a 1-second passing glance cameo too. They had a bit of a conversation around him. Just thinking about it in my head right now, this episode was probably filmed AFTER Luke Cage was cancelled, right? (Hopefully someone on the internet digs up an answer for that question.) If so, it would certainly indicate an intention from Marvel to keep using the Netflix characters going forward.

Liked the way Ty used his powers with the gang leaders.

I hope whoever collected all that colored vinyl for this season had fun doing it. It looks amazing.

Also liked the backstory for Andre and Lia. It was just about the right amount.

and it was much more satisfying than seeing Ty's mother sink into revenge last week.
I don't know where they're going with that story, but I am glad that Ty already knows that she killed Connors and lied to him about it.
 
I hope whoever collected all that colored vinyl for this season had fun doing it. It looks amazing.

They looked custom-made to fit the characters or ideas they represented. Apparently there are companies today that offer various different vinyl colors and custom blends.

As for Connors, didn't they need him alive to testify in order to clear Ty's name? So it made no sense that Ty's mother killed him before he could have his day in court.
 
They looked custom-made to fit the characters or ideas they represented. Apparently there are companies today that offer various different vinyl colors and custom blends.

As for Connors, didn't they need him alive to testify in order to clear Ty's name? So it made no sense that Ty's mother killed him before he could have his day in court.

She probably figured he'd lie to get out of it or use his connections to get out of it and he was BSing them. After all, his tip about the secret files failed.
 
This show is losing me. It's spending most of its time in this surreal realm of symbols, and what's actually going on in real-world terms is unclear. It's strange that the "record store" setting exists both inside Andre's mind and within Ty's Darkforce dimension, with the show not seeming to care about the distinction between the two, if any. I guess maybe Andre's linked to it because he got his powers from the same source as T&T, though that hasn't been adequately explained in-story, so it feels arbitrary.

I just don't care for the fantasy/mystical/surreal turn this show has taken. Granted, magic and supernatural phenomena are an established part of the MCU by now, but the movies and Agents of SHIELD have consistently presented them as just a form of science we don't understand yet, an alternative metaphor for harnessing the physical forces of the universe. C&D treats it in a more mystical, pure-fantasy way that doesn't feel like a good fit to the other shows. And it's just annoying to me to try to parse all these weird symbolic and pretentiously arty sequences.

Strangely enough, I'm actually liking that part, even though I would normally feel 100% partial to what you wrote and feel like turning the show off because of that.

On one hand, I'm enjoying the insight into aspects of Louisiana Vodoo, and the illustrative depiction its getting, even though I assume the artistic license used is probably not giving it close to fair depiction – e.g. loas obviously don't rape force marry mambos, and from what I can tell there isn't a form of symbolic marriage, although I still hope that part with Evita meant something different.

On the other hand, I've been starting new attempts to write, failing so far, but the mall/record store/gas station, and the mythology surrounding them, is eerily similar to my latest crazy idea, and I drew a lot of inspiration for what's otherwise a painful realism worship. And the show kinda makes sense to me.

In particular: Where parts of Cloak & Dagger makes zero sense in the real world, they would make 100% sense in the Framework. And the reality in the MCU's has its share of features that may bring it closer to the Framework in terms of rules – for example what Thanos has been able to pull off with the reality stone, the Mirror Dimension as seen in Doctor Strange, or what people were able to do the Darkhold outside the Framework in AOS (I was almost disappointed the portals opened using the Darkhold were not the same as the Dr. Strange ones; or were they?).

And there was some incoherence as to what's actually happening, but that's been mostly creeping me out, rather than turning me off, as it makes Andre seem unstoppable. And now the only person who could make head and tails of it is dead.

What really lost me, though, is where they took Ty's mother this week, having her give in to revenge. And I was confused by the ending, but it looked like they were implying that Tandy's mother killed herself? On top of that, you had the teenaged Evita suddenly being forced to become a vodoun priestess and "marry" a loa against her will, which feels like a kind of rape even if it's only a symbolic marriage. Anyway, it just went to an unpleasantly dark place for multiple characters all at once and it was a real turnoff. I'm not sure I even want to watch the remaining two episodes.

However, that hit me. The show went too dark, and that's normally good (although it's not what I started off to watch), and I even understand where Ty mother's went – I maybe appreciate what happened because I really wished it hadn't gone there.

But the Evita bit went too far. It's worse than what you say. The show put up a choice – either Tandy has to fight the person who just mind-raped her in a silly video game for completely confusing reasons, or Evita is forced to marry some shady god. And the whole thing was a consequence of... what? Ty lost the will to live out of nowhere, the timing made zero sense to me, I don't even recall Andre putting on a record to mess with his head (even if he did, it shouldn't have worked in that moment). Not to mention that one bit of the incoherence of the record store is that he needed to touch some people to affect them, whereas for others he simply put on a record and controlled them remotely.

Question – did all the people from Andre's audience commit suicide last week, before attending his recital?
 
And it was nice to see Ty and that other kid talking about Luke Cage and how he's a role model for them (although that maybe means this takes place before the end of LC season 2)./QUOTE]
Somebody pointed out that the Harlem Rumble would be the fight between Luke Cage and Diamondback at the end of Season One.
 
Question – did all the people from Andre's audience commit suicide last week, before attending his recital?
I'd like to say no, but the honest answer is "tune in next week".

The way they all just disappeared did not seem to match other uses of his power that we had seen earlier. If you wanted to complain that we're going into the season finale and the big showdown between the heroes and the villain with no clear definition of exactly what the villain's abilities are, that might be fair. But of course, this isn't a show about power levels. It's a show about trust, and belief in both your friends and yourself, and resisting the temptation to abuse the powers you've been given. Not only did Andre make the wrong choice, but Ty's mom also made the wrong choice with the power she was given, and you'd think that will cost her at the very least her son's trust.

Thinking about it now, D'Spayre's video game was almost a warning of what both the creators and the viewers shouldn't want the show to be. Endless scenes of the heroes beating up bad guys aren't interesting. (Not that anybody in this thread has suggested it.)
 
So this episode was a real "finish off dealing with their past and wipe the slate clean" type of thing. That was a bit of a letdown because it just didn't feel like we had been building up to any sort of huge need for a Tandy-vs-her-dad one last time type of drama. Tyrone has been fighting with himself on and off for most of both seasons, so that makes a bit more sense, but the perfect Tyrone we saw in this episode really, wasn't. Or at least he didn't feel quite right. (I don't know, maybe he should have teamed up with real Ty if he really was perfect, instead of fight him. Or something, I'm not quite sure.)

Light swords are cool. So was Cloak wearing the actual cloak.

If there is a season 3, would they still film it in Louisiana, and just pretend it's California? Or would they move the show production to California? (Seems possible if they get rid of pretty much the entire cast except for the two stars.) Or would their trip to Cali just happen on an episode or two of Runaways, and then the pair would head back to New Orleans for the regular 3rd season of C&D? And of course, it's possible that the beach mention could lead to somewhere else entirely, but I'm pretty sure that's what they're aiming for.

Speaking of them filming the show, I wonder how they filmed this season. Since so many of the sets and locations were revisited over and over again. Did they just sit down and spend 2 straight weeks filming every single scene from Tyrone's house all in a row, no matter the episode? And then spend the next 2 weeks filming every single scene in the record store? And then every scene in the church, and so on? If so, they must have bounced around from episode to episode to episode countless times.
 
Great episode. I loved the message that many of us have to go through--learning how to deal with the baggage of our youth. Nice coming of age story. I am actually looking forward to where things go in the third season. The first two seasons were entirely different in tone and plot, so I am hoping we are looking at another new direction in the future.

Also, I loved the Arya scene.

I should also add that I love this shows use of classic pop tunes that were originally very upbeat but now sound sombre and contemplative.
 
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Light swords are cool. So was Cloak wearing the actual cloak.

I wish they'd had Tandy wearing at least something with a dagger motif in the mindscape, even knowing that they'd never go for the preposterously impractical comics costume. "Cloak and Ballerina" doesn't really convey the same message.


If there is a season 3, would they still film it in Louisiana, and just pretend it's California? Or would they move the show production to California? (Seems possible if they get rid of pretty much the entire cast except for the two stars.) Or would their trip to Cali just happen on an episode or two of Runaways, and then the pair would head back to New Orleans for the regular 3rd season of C&D? And of course, it's possible that the beach mention could lead to somewhere else entirely, but I'm pretty sure that's what they're aiming for.

Why do you think it's California? I don't remember them mentioning anything about the location.


Speaking of them filming the show, I wonder how they filmed this season. Since so many of the sets and locations were revisited over and over again. Did they just sit down and spend 2 straight weeks filming every single scene from Tyrone's house all in a row, no matter the episode? And then spend the next 2 weeks filming every single scene in the record store? And then every scene in the church, and so on? If so, they must have bounced around from episode to episode to episode countless times.

That's how any show with standing sets is filmed. Typically, you only film one episode's worth of scenes on a given set before moving on to the next set, one episode at a time; but the sets are kept permanently standing so you can go back to them week after week. Since each episode has a different director, that's really the only way you can do it.

After all, there's nothing unusual about a show visiting the same sets week after week. Star Trek had the bridge, engineering, sickbay, crew quarters, etc. Supergirl has Kara's apartment, CatCo, the DEO, Lena's office, Lena's lab, etc. So there's no reason this show's filming process would be different from any other's. If there were a real-world location that they only had access to for a limited time, then presumably they'd shoot multiple episodes' worth in sequence, providing they could schedule the directors appropriately.
 
Two seasons is about the life expectancy of most shows on Freeform. Long-running shows there are more the exception than the rule, IMO.
 
Not surprising.

I hope the episode of Runaways that they appear on will send them off in good fashion.
 
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