I think everyone that puts their child in an automobile and drives around is endangering that child's life.
They should be reported!
They should be reported!
TNG Child Endangerment?
- Thread starter Defiler-Of-Redshirts
- Start date
Perhaps in the script Saratoga was intended to be a different class of ship?
Kirk, who was prepared to destroy a Earth colony with a million Human inhabitants, wouldn't destroy a hostile ship with children onboard?
If there was sufficant reason, yes Kirk would.
"Sufficient reason" being the operative phrase here
Again, I don't remember this Kirk incident, I only comment on these forums through what I can remember, I don't have a savants memory of every episode and film. (And I'm getting a bit old and forgetful)
If Kirk was prepared to do that, then that "Sufficient reason" must have been severe.
There are still no sufficient reasons for having children on a vessel which is basically a highly advanced war machine, while although it may not always be on Red Alert, its always prepared, under the veil of being a ship of exploration, yes, but always on its toes and prepared for the worst.
Maybe the Saratoga where only flying cargo over in Federation territory
Returning to this with regard to Picard. In the first episode where we saw the Borg, Picard knew through the reconnaissance of a away team that there was at least one Borg baby on the Borg ship.
Picard fired on the Borg ship, if he could have "taken it out" I believe he would have.
In the movie First Contact, Picard directed a fleet to destroy a similar Borg ship.
Having reason to fire on it at all, would be sufficient reason.
It had families aboard for the same reason as the Enterprise, protracted time away from where the families would have otherwise have been. Not wanting to be away from the families for years on end. Being big enough to accommodate families.
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As regards Wolf 359, at least three ships there are known to have had families aboard: the late arrival E-D as per TNG "Best of Both Worlds", the onscreen casualty Saratoga (which had Ben Sisko's wife and child and the equally civilian-clad woman called Doran) as per DS9 "Emissary", and the unnamed casualty that was supposed to peacefully rendezvous with the Melbourne (with the mother of a Melbourne crew member aboard) but instead had to join the battle, as per VOY "Infinite Regress".
In contrast, just about the only hint at a Starfleet policy of not having children aboard is Picard's comment in "Encounter at Farpoint" that "Starfleet has given [him] a ship with children aboard", as if there were other options...
And we do see ships (initially) without children, although only two close enough to be able to tell: the smallish hero ships of DS9 and VOY. And both readily embark civilians or foreigners such as Odo or Neelix, and eventually accommodate children (Jake, Naomi, Icheb) as well. So it's really no evidence of a policy, merely confirmation that Picard would have had a theoretical alternative at least.
Timo Saloniemi
In contrast, just about the only hint at a Starfleet policy of not having children aboard is Picard's comment in "Encounter at Farpoint" that "Starfleet has given [him] a ship with children aboard", as if there were other options...
And we do see ships (initially) without children, although only two close enough to be able to tell: the smallish hero ships of DS9 and VOY. And both readily embark civilians or foreigners such as Odo or Neelix, and eventually accommodate children (Jake, Naomi, Icheb) as well. So it's really no evidence of a policy, merely confirmation that Picard would have had a theoretical alternative at least.
Timo Saloniemi
To Tenacity. . . .
I think the Borg are a special case here
You get one chance with them before they adapt to your weapons
They also are relentless, they function purely to assimilate other species, even their baby drones are being indoctrinated to do so
Firing on a ship full of the most dangerous threat in the universe is a bit different from firing on another random species with nurseries onboard, I firmly believe that if the Enterprise was faced with a situation where they could possibly engage with a hostile species who had children onboard, they would most definitely try and negotiate a peace.
Calculatingly killing children would not be an option for Picard or Kirk, it would have to be an absolute last resort.
The same could not be said for any number of hostiles in the galaxy.
Our opinions clearly differ, I respect yours, but this is my firm belief.
I think the Borg are a special case here
You get one chance with them before they adapt to your weapons
They also are relentless, they function purely to assimilate other species, even their baby drones are being indoctrinated to do so
Firing on a ship full of the most dangerous threat in the universe is a bit different from firing on another random species with nurseries onboard, I firmly believe that if the Enterprise was faced with a situation where they could possibly engage with a hostile species who had children onboard, they would most definitely try and negotiate a peace.
Calculatingly killing children would not be an option for Picard or Kirk, it would have to be an absolute last resort.
The same could not be said for any number of hostiles in the galaxy.
Our opinions clearly differ, I respect yours, but this is my firm belief.
General Order 24 gives Kirk and other captains the ability to kill millions or billions of children. That such an order is not unthinkable and indeed was orders by Kirk shows he’s willing to kill children.
As for ships with kids - not sure if the Vico has been mentioned, that had children on board too.
However while starships May be more dangerous than Earth or Mars, Colony’s like Delta Rana IV or Deneva or Jouret IV (and many more) show that colonies are dangerous too.
As for ships with kids - not sure if the Vico has been mentioned, that had children on board too.
However while starships May be more dangerous than Earth or Mars, Colony’s like Delta Rana IV or Deneva or Jouret IV (and many more) show that colonies are dangerous too.
Wolf 359 is 8 light years from Earth.
Terra Nova, the first human colony was 20 light years from Earth.
Wikipedia doesn't mention an exo-planet, but lists Wolf 359 as a flare star intermittently producing x-ray and gamma ray blasts, which would mean that any colony world, if there are colony worlds, there would have to have heavier than usual shielding.
Maybe there's a Starbase there, but it's so close to Earth, so why bother?
Why? When first encountered Picard had no idea the Borg were going to develop into a significant enemy to the Federation, they met the Borg far outside Federation space.
And Picard had no idea that the Borg assimilate other species, as far as he knew the Borg were only interested in technology.
He did know there was at least one baby aboard the Borg ship, when the Enterprise again open fire on it.
It would be on the list of options for all Starfleet captains.
If it became widely known that simply bringing children aboard, and then telling a Starfleet ship that this was the case, and this would result in Starfleet not engaging in combat owing to policy ...
... well guess what some opponents would do?
Look, in a combat situation I really don't think Starfleet would shirk their duty to protect Federation planets and people, because the enemy ship held children.
If the Ocampa had warships (hypothetically), the officers and crew could be as young as one year old.
How old was Worf's son Alexander when he was serving on a Klingon warship? Thirteen or so?
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He was about 8 years old.
Sorry, by "at Wolf 359" I meant aboard ships.
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