Spoilers Season 8 Episode 1 (Spoilers ... duh!)

[Bad Thoughts]

Like it says in the header, SPOILERS!

I really like the story they developed in the documentary. It had issues, of course, and seemed a little half-baked in places, but I assume that should be expected. Nonetheless, I think that it hit on some interesting things.

First, I said that I would respect what they do with Sisko in the story as a reflection on canon with regard to WYLB. I've argued in the past the Sisko is effectively dead, the writers didn't believe he was ever coming back. Clearly, the writers (RDM in particular) state that Sisko is coming back. OK, I accept that as an interpretation of what happened in the finale. However, I don't think what happens at the end of Ep 1 is the same thing. Sisko appearing in multiple places as once sounds too mystical to be described as a return.

Second, it seems like there is some generational conflict developing. I loved that the younger people--Jake, Little Joseph, Molly, and Nog--are the ones eager to expose what is happening. OTOH, it seems like the older characters are working through agendas. They seem to have drifted apart, having difficulties relating to one another.

Third, I hope people don't groan over Section 31. The writers' room was filmed before Discovery, and I know that fatigue set in over Section 31 explanations (not to mention outright resistance). I think the story, such as it is, needs to be viewed in the dynamic of previous DS9 episodes on Section 31.

Fourth, I wasn't sure if the notion of Section 31 trying to destroy the Bajoran religion wasn't too much metacommentary on Star Trek and how people felt about DS9 in particular. Again, this is something that might be refined more if there were further development of the story.

ETA: Fifth, I still am trying to wrap my head around Bashir joining Section 31. Moreover would not his wife, Ezri, know?

 

[TheSeeker]

Overall I liked what they were developing, but I think it might have been cool if they had made Kira the villain of the piece, or at least kept her role in everything a little more ambiguous for at least a few more episodes.

 

[Tosk]

Having Nerys become a Vedek (which I still don't like at all) and Ezri a captain, it's hard not to think they are at least partially familiar with the novels.

 

[TheSeeker]

I haven't read the novels, but didn't they refer to her ship by the same name as the one in the novels?

 

[YJAGG]

@ Bad Thoughts , the appearing at multiple places at once reminded me of the TOS episode Errand of Mercy, are the Prophets the Organians?

@ Tosk why would they? I expect they don't read the books at all, if it is not getting them any money, plus this is their vision not the book author's

 

[Bad Thoughts]

the appearing at multiple places at once reminded me of the TOS episode Errand of Mercy, are the Prophets the Organians?

I thought it might have been a reference to the episode, but I guess there could be some connection to the Organians.

 

[seigezunt]

I haven't read the novels, but didn't they refer to her ship by the same name as the one in the novels?

No. In the books it's the Aventine, as I recall.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Having Nerys become a Vedek (which I still don't like at all) and Ezri a captain, it's hard not to think they are at least partially familiar with the novels.

Hard to say. They would want to give all the characters important positions to give some sense that their lives progressed over the past 16 years (the meeting was in 2015, no?). Every path was more or less a throwaway: Martok was about to step down for Worf, O'Brien was a dean at the Academy, Nog was a captain, Jake was a writer, and of course, Quark ran the bar. Perhaps the writers were familiar with the novelists--they may have met and interacted. Moreover, they would need someone to have their own starship after they killed Nog: Bashir and Dax were the only candidates.

 

[NewHeavensNewEarth]

I thought it was a stretch to say the destruction of the wormhole would automatically lead to them entering the Federation. And if it were ever exposed, it would be Bajor leading a coalition of powers in war against the Federation. I wasn't fully sold on the logic of it, even after hearing their reasons.

 

[kkt]

I thought it was a stretch to say the destruction of the wormhole would automatically lead to them entering the Federation. And if it were ever exposed, it would be Bajor leading a coalition of powers in war against the Federation. I wasn't fully sold on the logic of it, even after hearing their reasons.

Yes. Section 31 presented itself as dealing with existential threats to the Federation. Whether Bajor joins or not doesn't seem like a threat to the Federation. If they want to keep being a Federation minor ally or an independent, they're no threat. But if Section 31 were caught, that WOULD be an existential threat.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Yes. Section 31 presented itself as dealing with existential threats to the Federation. Whether Bajor joins or not doesn't seem like a threat to the Federation. If they want to keep being a Federation minor ally or an independent, they're no threat. But if Section 31 were caught, that WOULD be an existential threat.

I believe the thinking is that the destruction of the wormhole not only undermines confidence in the Prophets, it also cuts off Bajor from a potential military force of its own, the Jem'hadar. Perhaps if we were to get more, we would have learned that the Jem'hadar replaced their gods, the Founders, with the Prophets.

OTOH, I'm not sure that Section 31 is known for its strategic thinking. It remains subtly in the shadows, but does it not operate for big effect? Kill someone's gods? Well, they already tried that, did they not?

 

[Danlav05]

This is the one thing I was looking forward to in the documentary, I wasn't disappointed.

This was obviously a brainstorm more than anything, but I lvoed how they showed how all the characters' lives have changed in the 20 years, setting them up for the new 'season'. The novels continued for years and years but for the most part the characters are all scattered, but they are all featured here.

It did feel like a full story and the animation helped. I hope its adapted for a comic or novel or something.

Bit disappointed the episode doesn't have it's own title - I guess 'What We Left Behind' would suffice?

 

[NewHeavensNewEarth]

I believe the thinking is that the destruction of the wormhole not only undermines confidence in the Prophets, it also cuts off Bajor from a potential military force of its own, the Jem'hadar. Perhaps if we were to get more, we would have learned that the Jem'hadar replaced their gods, the Founders, with the Prophets.

OTOH, I'm not sure that Section 31 is known for its strategic thinking. It remains subtly in the shadows, but does it not operate for big effect? Kill someone's gods? Well, they already tried that, did they not?

I get that, but if having a HUMAN as one of their objects of veneration isn't enough to nudge them towards the Federation, blowing up the wormhole probably wouldn't do the job either. In any case, it was interesting to hear their ideas.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Bit disappointed the episode doesn't have it's own title - I guess 'What We Left Behind' would suffice?

It was a little disappointing that there was no title or at least a framing device for the episode. Generally, I think that the whole season they imagined (not really addressed in the film) concerns former allies now at odds with one another, a sort of cold war.

If I were to give it a title, I might try "The Right Way Home," a reference to Churchill's thoughts on post-WWII relations and his feeling that Britain was stuck maneuvering between two dangerous courses.

 

[YJAGG]

I just watched a video where Ira said he is not looking to do season 8...

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IDK if CBS is thinking about this, but if there is enough chatter about DS over Disco and Picard, who knows ...follow the latinum guys!

 

[Bad Thoughts]

IDK if CBS is thinking about this, but if there is enough chatter about DS over Disco and Picard, who knows ...follow the latinum guys!

As much as it is also a long shot, getting a season 8 is probably more likely than getting a remaster. CBS seems more interested in producing new Star Trek rather than playing custodian to old Star Trek.

 

[David cgc]

Having Nerys become a Vedek (which I still don't like at all) and Ezri a captain, it's hard not to think they are at least partially familiar with the novels.

Star Trek Online had Kira joining the clergy first. I'd expect all three of them decided it more-or-less independently as an obvious twist for her character to take off-screen (notice they all also did it in a time-jump, rather than having it happen while we were watching) rather than just climbing the ranks up to General (or Admiral). The interesting thing here is not that they had Kira become a Vedek, but she was also still the commander of Deep Space Nine. That's an interesting twist that hadn't been tried yet, and it seems like the sort of thing a still-independent Bajor might do with their pet starbase in peacetime, making the station boss a civil rather than military position (or, alternatively, the Kira still had her rank along with being ordained, which would be a fun parallel to Sisko being officer and emissary).

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I haven’t seen the documentary but I’d find S31 trying to destroy the wormhole a lot more plausible as a way to cut off any future Dominion threat.

But for Bajor who knows what S31 has analyzed about them? On route to becoming a superpower with access to another quadrant and possibly more moral authority than the Federation.

 

[NewHeavensNewEarth]

I just watched a video where Ira said he is not looking to do season 8...

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IDK if CBS is thinking about this, but if there is enough chatter about DS over Disco and Picard, who knows ...follow the latinum guys!

If not for the existence of "Fuller House," I probably wouldn't give such an idea a chance. But here we are.

 

[Sisko_is_my_captain]

I hated Sisko leaving his family at the end of S7. I thought it flew in the face of one of their proudest plot lines, of showing a present, loving, brown father (as Brooks might put it). Sisko had a baby on the way and he left his family behind. Just pissed me off.