I'm not sure if one more episode is enough to deal with the fall out of this episode.
Spoilers Game of Thrones: The Final Season
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
- Start date
Poor Cersei. Except for her deal with religious fundies (unlikely in polytheistic religions one would think), she at least kept most things stable, and unburnt.
It does look like a lifting body of some Connecticut Yankee kid. What a shock he's in for.
It looked a bit like the sTARDUST craft from UNIDENTIFIED FLYING ODDBALL
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unidentified_Flying_Oddball
I couldn't tell what it was. Thought it was a sword.
Another one showed someone holding what I thought was a severed head up to a lion. The dragon then goes on a rampage alone.
Call it Daeny's March to the Sea.
But really--this was more WWII than anything else.
Curtis LeMay could not have been more thorough.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_raids_on_Japan#March_firebombing_campaign
In Japan, incendiary devices killed more than the atomic drops. Not to mention artillery--the main cause of death in wartime for quite some time:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_naval_bombardments_of_Japan_during_World_War_II
A neutron bomb actually would have been a merciful end for King's Landing.
Death comes more quickly--without as much fear--and Daeny actually has a kingdom left to rule over (poor folks from other towns move in).
Flea Bottom now becomes a charnel house for Drogon.
Only the Mountain is left staggering around, and is more quickly dispatched--even he addled by the neutron flux.
As they say, War is Hell.
All Daeny had to do was stop after the Iron Fleet was dispatched and the battlements razed. (Dragon flame has a concussive effect beyond mere flamethrower units). Once the gate was breached from behind, she should have stood down.
Still, there would have been atrocities, (as with the Soviet invasion of Berlin) but from the Dothraki, not the unsullied.
Were the Dornish folks there?
The Mountain actually seemed to be enjoying himself. Daeny just went kamikaze here, WWII style.
Like the Red Baron of WWI, she dove in out of the sun, making targeting difficult. Comin in low, and take out a line. So much for the Dread Pirate Euron.
So did Jon.
I think he was hoping to die, as Brad Pitt's character did from The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford.
A DEW-line of ravens, as it were.
Now, it is the Cold War. Or maybe, shades of Stross, A Colder War.
That seems more likely now.
It does look like a lifting body of some Connecticut Yankee kid. What a shock he's in for.
It looked a bit like the sTARDUST craft from UNIDENTIFIED FLYING ODDBALL
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unidentified_Flying_Oddball
I couldn't tell what it was. Thought it was a sword.
Another one showed someone holding what I thought was a severed head up to a lion. The dragon then goes on a rampage alone.
That was U.S. Grant. Thing is, it worked.
Call it Daeny's March to the Sea.
But really--this was more WWII than anything else.
Curtis LeMay could not have been more thorough.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_raids_on_Japan#March_firebombing_campaign
In Japan, incendiary devices killed more than the atomic drops. Not to mention artillery--the main cause of death in wartime for quite some time:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_naval_bombardments_of_Japan_during_World_War_II
A neutron bomb actually would have been a merciful end for King's Landing.
Death comes more quickly--without as much fear--and Daeny actually has a kingdom left to rule over (poor folks from other towns move in).
Flea Bottom now becomes a charnel house for Drogon.
Only the Mountain is left staggering around, and is more quickly dispatched--even he addled by the neutron flux.
As they say, War is Hell.
All Daeny had to do was stop after the Iron Fleet was dispatched and the battlements razed. (Dragon flame has a concussive effect beyond mere flamethrower units). Once the gate was breached from behind, she should have stood down.
Still, there would have been atrocities, (as with the Soviet invasion of Berlin) but from the Dothraki, not the unsullied.
Were the Dornish folks there?
The Mountain actually seemed to be enjoying himself. Daeny just went kamikaze here, WWII style.
Like the Red Baron of WWI, she dove in out of the sun, making targeting difficult. Comin in low, and take out a line. So much for the Dread Pirate Euron.
So did Jon.
I think he was hoping to die, as Brad Pitt's character did from The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford.
A DEW-line of ravens, as it were.
Now, it is the Cold War. Or maybe, shades of Stross, A Colder War.
That seems more likely now.
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A small detail I did not notice was that the young girl who was helping Varys at Dragonstone was beside him when he was hiding in the crypt at Winterfell.
Ah, of course! I knew she looked familiar! I'm pretty sure she's also the same girl Davos served food to and gently encouraged her to hide in the crypts instead of fighting.
I was wondering if it was her, hope she's still alive.A small detail I did not notice was that the young girl who was helping Varys at Dragonstone was beside him when he was hiding in the crypt at Winterfell.
No, the girl Davos serve food to was younger and had burns on her face.
I am not mad at all about Daeny burning King's Landing. This was a long time coming. She's been furious at the Lannisters and Baratheons her whole life. I'm just just really disappointed in the endings for Euron, Cersei, Jamie, and Varys. Six episodes was not long enough to tell these stories. D&D should have been fired and replaced with someone with experience writing original screenplays.
I've never found this thread before, but after watching today's episode I just had to express my gut reactions about it. Seriously, after watching through this, I now understand why Emilia Clarke had to aimlessly wander the streets of London for three hours after learning what happens to her character. She was acting her best in this one though, especially at the moment. Her facial acting was nothing short of absolutely, heartwrenchingly chilling. Even if I still can't quite be calm about what happens afterwards, but that's absolutely not Emilia's fault.
It's just... I don't know. I've fallen into full darkness-induced apathy about the whole storyline after this one. I'm sure there's a lot about subverted expectations in my feelings, but now it looks like to me as if D&D had lost interest in their own show and now just want to see the story to the end, rushing through it without rhyme and reason. We've seen a lot of character arcs get to their conclusions, but I've only found Cleganebowl satisfying... I never would've thought Sandor would be the only one I'd cry for at the end. While it was poetic for Jaime and Cersei to die in each other's arms, I felt the way it happened to be absolutely underwhelming (yeah, subverted expectations, right there). Even Varys' death felt completely undeserved in its execution, his last scenes had an atmosphere of bleak inevitability that said he has to die tonight, no matter how it happens.
I think I might've noticed a lot more nuance in the episode if it weren't for Daenerys. I've read in one review that if you weren't able to buy her final descent into madness, the rest of the episode would feel undeserved, and that's how I felt about it, despite the harrowingly effective depiction of the absolute horror of dragonfire from the civilians' perspective. Granted, she's always been shown as emotionally unstable, even if she was depicted as a much lighter shade of gray than in the books, but it felt for me as if the last few episodes were just an uninterrupted chain of contrived coincidences intentionally designed to hasten her unraveling. It got to the point where it looked more like character assassination than a natural conclusion to her character development. I might be connecting the wrong dots here, but based on what she experienced in this episode before she plummeted into full-blown psychosis, the episode made it look like Jon rejecting her advances and refusing to rekindle their relationship was the straw that broke the camel's back, and that really leaves a truly awful taste in my mouth.
Ultimately, I don't mind her turning out to be a villain. But the writers really could've built her up better and not whitewash her into a fantasy heroine for seven seasons before practically gaslighting her into a full 180.
It's just... I don't know. I've fallen into full darkness-induced apathy about the whole storyline after this one. I'm sure there's a lot about subverted expectations in my feelings, but now it looks like to me as if D&D had lost interest in their own show and now just want to see the story to the end, rushing through it without rhyme and reason. We've seen a lot of character arcs get to their conclusions, but I've only found Cleganebowl satisfying... I never would've thought Sandor would be the only one I'd cry for at the end. While it was poetic for Jaime and Cersei to die in each other's arms, I felt the way it happened to be absolutely underwhelming (yeah, subverted expectations, right there). Even Varys' death felt completely undeserved in its execution, his last scenes had an atmosphere of bleak inevitability that said he has to die tonight, no matter how it happens.
I think I might've noticed a lot more nuance in the episode if it weren't for Daenerys. I've read in one review that if you weren't able to buy her final descent into madness, the rest of the episode would feel undeserved, and that's how I felt about it, despite the harrowingly effective depiction of the absolute horror of dragonfire from the civilians' perspective. Granted, she's always been shown as emotionally unstable, even if she was depicted as a much lighter shade of gray than in the books, but it felt for me as if the last few episodes were just an uninterrupted chain of contrived coincidences intentionally designed to hasten her unraveling. It got to the point where it looked more like character assassination than a natural conclusion to her character development. I might be connecting the wrong dots here, but based on what she experienced in this episode before she plummeted into full-blown psychosis, the episode made it look like Jon rejecting her advances and refusing to rekindle their relationship was the straw that broke the camel's back, and that really leaves a truly awful taste in my mouth.
Ultimately, I don't mind her turning out to be a villain. But the writers really could've built her up better and not whitewash her into a fantasy heroine for seven seasons before practically gaslighting her into a full 180.
Dany could have stopped after the army threw their swords down, and then only stormed the Red Keep. Maybe, if Jon hadn't told Sansa the truth she would have done that. But she was convinced it was inevitable that they'd pick Jon over her, and the only way to prevent that in her mind was to scare everyone to death.
I'm curious what's going to happen with Tyrion in the last episode. I am totally convinced if he goes back to Dany she will instantly murder him. Even if she doesn't know he freed Jamie, she's going to do the math. One Lannister hand + one Targaryen monarch burning people = One knife in back. The most interesting route for him might be defecting to Jon and begging him to do something.
I hope we see Bran in the next episode. We were promised answers for how the winter/summer cycle really works. If they left it off here without giving any answer it'd be unfulfilling. I know the books will have the answer but the show should be a complete unit with or without knowledge from the books.
I'm curious what's going to happen with Tyrion in the last episode. I am totally convinced if he goes back to Dany she will instantly murder him. Even if she doesn't know he freed Jamie, she's going to do the math. One Lannister hand + one Targaryen monarch burning people = One knife in back. The most interesting route for him might be defecting to Jon and begging him to do something.
I hope we see Bran in the next episode. We were promised answers for how the winter/summer cycle really works. If they left it off here without giving any answer it'd be unfulfilling. I know the books will have the answer but the show should be a complete unit with or without knowledge from the books.
That's not what they did, though. They showed her being cruel and vindictive for seven seasons. We just brushed it off because she was doing it to people we hated. They showed us EXACTLY who she was, just in a way that we wouldn't believe them.
Like, clearly Viserys deserves what he got, but if you look at Dany's face while it was happening. Completely stone cold blank.
Danaerys did not descend into madness. She was always there, just she always directed her madness somewhere more palletable before.
Honestly, having written characters inspired by Daenerys, I find this ending worse than Mass Effect 3.
This eisode did give the a Dresden in WW2 vibe. Cersei behaving like Hitler in his last hours had to be intentional. The allies burned Desden down with the war (arguably) won. And the allies were the "good" guys! Will Dany rationalize this next episode? Will anyone buy it.
I feel what you're saying and I'm sure I'll be able to view her past actions in a grayer light after I've slept on it, but through my clouded memory those actions of her seem more calculated and restrained, maybe cold and ruthless. So yeah, the fantasy heroine thing obviously was a rushed judgement on my part in retrospect, but what she did in this episode felt so much worse to me because she's shown absolutely no restraint and no rational thought at all.
I viewed her before as unstable, but certainly not insane in the psychotic sense. I get it that the show wanted to convey that the loss of everything she held dear finally tipped the Gods' coin to one side after it had balanced on its edge for her whole life, but I would've included more overt signs of it in the previous seasons than what we've got. I understand they were good enough signs for many, but they just weren't for me... her actions didn't seem all that worse for me than those of, let's say, Tywin Lannister who sacked King's Landing, sent Gregor Clegane to pillage the Riverlands in retaliation for Jaime being captured, and orchestrated the Red Wedding. Even if it means she was evil all along.
But that being said, you're absolutely right about the viewers brushing her cruelty off. I had to do it a lot myself because her ruthlessness actually left a bad taste in my mouth all the time, but I kept desperately clinging to the hope that she'll see reason at the very end. The beginning of this season, when we were still focused on the Night King, lulled me into believing she was headed in that direction. I guess I should've listened to what Ramsay Bolton said about happy endings.
Come to think of it, I actually liked the contrast between how her dragonback riding was depicted in the past and tonight... back then, we always saw it from her perspective, the big battle scenes having soaring music as she swept in to deliver the big guns, and tonight we saw the terrified civilians on the ground as she flied overhead like a force of nature that can't be reasoned with. It underscored what she's become (or conversely, what she's always been) perfectly.
Personally, I think the way it happened was the only way it made sense for the show as it was told since the beginning. Danerys was a vile fucker since the very start. She was just aiming that vileness against even bigger assholes, so we cheered with her.
Hey people - if someone is doing evil shit - they are probably evil. You cannot do evil shit and still be a "good guy", because you only are evil to the "badguys". Despite that's what countless clichéd movies have told everyone - hey it's totally fine to endulge in revenge-fantasies - as long as they people directed it have it coming! No. That's not how any of that works.
It's also a great political metaphor - You have gone to countless countries, toppled their leaders, commited vicious crimes. And now - your own country turns to shit. Your own people get massacred, your own land vandalized. Not from your victims, not from the people you subjugated. Not from outside force. No. From the very same people you send in the first place to do those things, in the name of the greater good, because they have now become good at doing those things.
My only complaints would be some logic leaps and technicalities - like Drogon taking the entire fleet out so easily, instead of a more tactical approach. But all in all - it was done the way it should. Not a sudden reaction by Danerys. But a very deliberate moment. Where she had the choice NOT to do it. But did it anyway. Because that's what she has always done.
It's frankly the exact thing GoT was always about.
It's the same with people being surprised Cpt. Lorca from season 1 of DIS turned out to be evil. Jesus Christ, he did a whole lot of evil shit before that! Not "grey" or "morally ambigious" stuff. Straigh up evil. People just tried to ignore it, because they liked the character so much, and thought the victims (Mudd) "had it coming".
Hey people - if someone is doing evil shit - they are probably evil. You cannot do evil shit and still be a "good guy", because you only are evil to the "badguys". Despite that's what countless clichéd movies have told everyone - hey it's totally fine to endulge in revenge-fantasies - as long as they people directed it have it coming! No. That's not how any of that works.
It's also a great political metaphor - You have gone to countless countries, toppled their leaders, commited vicious crimes. And now - your own country turns to shit. Your own people get massacred, your own land vandalized. Not from your victims, not from the people you subjugated. Not from outside force. No. From the very same people you send in the first place to do those things, in the name of the greater good, because they have now become good at doing those things.
My only complaints would be some logic leaps and technicalities - like Drogon taking the entire fleet out so easily, instead of a more tactical approach. But all in all - it was done the way it should. Not a sudden reaction by Danerys. But a very deliberate moment. Where she had the choice NOT to do it. But did it anyway. Because that's what she has always done.
It's frankly the exact thing GoT was always about.
Oh, huh. Could've sworn it was the same girl, but I'll take your word for it.
Jon and Dany aren't siblings.
It happens to be legal for aunt/uncle and nephew/niece to marry in my country and many others.
After my grandmother died, my grandfather began a relationship with his cousin. The family seriously disapproved. They left the area and moved a few hundred kilometers to a large city and spent the rest of their lives together with no contact with the extended family. This was perfectly legal.
The "horror and disgust" you mention is often an act to shut up people who love to judge.
It was also the only possible plot that narratively made sense - the one person with the undefeatable fucking Dragon(s) - who is also completely willing to actually use them against people - turning out to be the "final boss".
I think the only absolutely truly bad thing is the whiplash-inducing writing, because they have to cram, like, three entire books into a single season. But I can also understand that the actors and writers simply want to get done at one point. They were playing/writing these characters for over 10 years. Had the books already been finished, they could have massively sped up the plot of seasons 4-6, and gave the last two - where the majority of "main" plot happened - the time it deserved and needed to feel organic. Sadly - that flaw was un-fixable the moment they started filming the very first episode, without the books being finished - not entirely able to know how big of chunks of plots ahead and how to spread them the best.
Still majorly disappointed about what a dud the Night-King turned out to be though... that was lame.
I think the only absolutely truly bad thing is the whiplash-inducing writing, because they have to cram, like, three entire books into a single season. But I can also understand that the actors and writers simply want to get done at one point. They were playing/writing these characters for over 10 years. Had the books already been finished, they could have massively sped up the plot of seasons 4-6, and gave the last two - where the majority of "main" plot happened - the time it deserved and needed to feel organic. Sadly - that flaw was un-fixable the moment they started filming the very first episode, without the books being finished - not entirely able to know how big of chunks of plots ahead and how to spread them the best.
Still majorly disappointed about what a dud the Night-King turned out to be though... that was lame.
The Night King was a one trick pony - he could raise the dead and, except for throwing a spear, little else. He was a poor enough warrior in the beginning to be captured by the Children of the Forest.
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