That was a stupendously shitty ending for a lot of character arcs.
Spoilers Game of Thrones: The Final Season
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
- Start date
I thought it was a great episode. I liked the way The Hound had to use to take his brother out.
Welp, time to pin all of my hopes on WoW/ADoS being released in my lifetime.
Emilia Clarke and dragons. I could be quite entertained by both! 
While I was a little disappointed that Daenerys didn't listen to her better instincts (and Tyrion and Jon), her Mad Queen burning of King's Landing wasn't without set-up, as discussed ad nauseam in the last week. Her rage has always existed inside, smoldered by the good people around her. But as she lost them and two of her children, the dragon was awakened.
That said, I loved how Miguel Sapochnik presented the chaos of the fire and bloodshed of King's Landing. He didn't shy away from just how truly horrific burning a city would be for every living soul. I especially loved the Children of Men-esque cinematography as the camera followed Arya through the crumbling city and how she desperately and fruitlessly tried to save anyone, even just a mother and her child. My heart broke when the child went running back to her mother, knowing it would be her doom, simply because she couldn't be parted from her.
I was far more disappointed in the ending of Jaime and Cersei's stories. I once loathed Jaime at the beginning of there series, as anyone should. But what made him compelling over the years, over the seasons and books, was his long road to redemption and breaking away from Cersei's terrible influence. And while I knew the possibly of him becoming Queenslayer might be a flight of fancy, I certainly wanted his story to end in such a manner that remained true to his atonement for his past deeds. Running back into Cersei's arms, dying under the rubble couldn't be further from that desire.
As for Cersei, I didn't like how the episode suddenly presented her as someone sympathetic, as if Daenerys' madness somehow absolved all of Cersei's cruel sins. Let us not look past the fact that wildfire was ignited throughout the city, suggesting that Cersei planted caches of it throughout the city a la Aerys himself. This is a women who did not care about the people she ruled over. All she ever cared about was herself and her children.
But on a more positive note, I loved how Sandor pushed Arya away at the last moment, telling her that she shouldn't become like him, letting vile vengeance consume her. That led her to desperate run through the falling city, changing from a mistress of death to a mistress for life, even if one in vain.
And at long last, CLEGANEBOWL! It was just about as glorious as I would hope for involving an undead monster. I kept yelling at Sandor to go for the eyes, even before Gregor started pushing in Sandor's a la Oberyn. I guess it's safe to say Gregor can't come back from dragonfire.
That said, I loved how Miguel Sapochnik presented the chaos of the fire and bloodshed of King's Landing. He didn't shy away from just how truly horrific burning a city would be for every living soul. I especially loved the Children of Men-esque cinematography as the camera followed Arya through the crumbling city and how she desperately and fruitlessly tried to save anyone, even just a mother and her child. My heart broke when the child went running back to her mother, knowing it would be her doom, simply because she couldn't be parted from her.
I was far more disappointed in the ending of Jaime and Cersei's stories. I once loathed Jaime at the beginning of there series, as anyone should. But what made him compelling over the years, over the seasons and books, was his long road to redemption and breaking away from Cersei's terrible influence. And while I knew the possibly of him becoming Queenslayer might be a flight of fancy, I certainly wanted his story to end in such a manner that remained true to his atonement for his past deeds. Running back into Cersei's arms, dying under the rubble couldn't be further from that desire.
As for Cersei, I didn't like how the episode suddenly presented her as someone sympathetic, as if Daenerys' madness somehow absolved all of Cersei's cruel sins. Let us not look past the fact that wildfire was ignited throughout the city, suggesting that Cersei planted caches of it throughout the city a la Aerys himself. This is a women who did not care about the people she ruled over. All she ever cared about was herself and her children.
But on a more positive note, I loved how Sandor pushed Arya away at the last moment, telling her that she shouldn't become like him, letting vile vengeance consume her. That led her to desperate run through the falling city, changing from a mistress of death to a mistress for life, even if one in vain.
And at long last, CLEGANEBOWL! It was just about as glorious as I would hope for involving an undead monster. I kept yelling at Sandor to go for the eyes, even before Gregor started pushing in Sandor's a la Oberyn. I guess it's safe to say Gregor can't come back from dragonfire.
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There's a difference between expecting an unhappy ending because Game of Thrones (and being spoiled by Digific), and seeing a complete betrayal of the characters you've come to enjoy played out onscreen for an hour.
Why don't you let people have their reactions without giving them shit about it?
Ah, yeah, that would've been a nice touch. I got a strong enough sense as she looked up into the sky towards the end of the attack that she decided she would go after Daenerys next, even if she had just gotten off the vengeance path thanks to Sandor.
The automatic negative reactions smack of entitlement, and YOU are sounding like Digific has been this entire season.
Betrayal? This is exactly the woman who has been displayed to us for seven years. She did the exact same thing to King’s Landing she has consistently done to all her enemies. Just her previous victims have been easier to hate. WE made the same error as Tyrion, Jon and Varys, we imagined what we wanted to see in her.
I thought Arya had to be in the city as a witness to what Daenerys, if Jon cannot kill Daenerys than Arya will. I am sure she has just been put onto Arya’s list.
Well, to be fair, Locutus did say characters. Far be it for me to speak for him, but I'm disappointed in the way Cersei's and especially Jaime's character arcs ended. An argument can be made for Varys, too (especially in comparison to what he's doing in the books). Hell, I'm sure some people think the same for Arya, although I loved what happened with her in this episode.
I have seen it listed as "The Bells", though Dracarys would have been a better title. The final episode is "A Dream of Spring".
I thought that Jaime might strangle/stab/kill Cersei so that she would not be captured. I knew they would die together so I was not really that annoyed that they went the way they did.
Sansa will put on a pious face, but no more King’s Landing lording it over the North is her happy ending.
Didn’t believe Arya is converted to kindness and sensitivity at the last second, by the Hound of all people.
Didn’t believe Sandor lasts that long and don’t believe he can shove the Mountain through a wall.
Daenerys didn’t even fire Tyrion much less kill him, didn’t confine Jon to quarters, didn’t demand Sansa be arrested, even went so far as to try to make a new beginning with Jon. If Paris is worth a Mass, making love to the woman you love should be easy. If they wanted to have Jon have religious scruples they should have written the man as religious. He’s not. He’d rather send her into battle as a woman scorned for no reason at all. It’s almost as if he’s thinking he doesn’t want to accept a role as consort lest it interfere with his later claim. Sansa is pretty good.
In short, war is hell, and the true villains are the ones who start them. Glad to see Varys co-architect of years of war with Olenna and Littlefinger go. But before I went I remembered the movie he came from, The Caine Mutiny. He was the Fred MacMurray character undermining Captain Queeg (Bogart) to the Van Johnson character. But too late for a Jose Ferrer character to point out that you should try to help people struggling instead of backstabbing them.
In long, re war is hell: The news tells us that a built up city is where inferior forces have a tactical edge enabling them to hold out for extremely long period, and the only real way to beat them without tremendous casualties is heavy bombardment. Leningrad, Stalingrad taught this to very good German armies. Recent examples include Falluja and Raqqa. Surrendering in the middle of a battle is always fraught with difficulties, which is why it’s so important for the commanders to give surrender orders, instead of going the Tarly route and trying to urge vain sacrifices. The number of dead is probably some times larger than the number of poor, sick, elderly and young who would have died in the prolonged siege Tyrion wanted. I think pretending this is just personal madness instead of standard operating procedure is kind of sleazy.
None of this supports the mad queen scenario. Daenerys refusing to return the Dothraki to the Great Grass Sea or refusing to pay off and retire the Unsullied would be. But that wouldn’t be very believable either.
A believable ending would be Daenerys taking them back east, leaving Jon to be ignominiously slaughtered in a vain effort to keep peace in Westeros. Sansa doing him in personally would be a bit of a stretch. But her invasion to seize Tully lands would be very plausible, and very apt to kill him off. Then Westeros could be free to have constant wars among the kingdoms. Happy endings for all!
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Didn’t believe Arya is converted to kindness and sensitivity at the last second, by the Hound of all people.
Didn’t believe Sandor lasts that long and don’t believe he can shove the Mountain through a wall.
Daenerys didn’t even fire Tyrion much less kill him, didn’t confine Jon to quarters, didn’t demand Sansa be arrested, even went so far as to try to make a new beginning with Jon. If Paris is worth a Mass, making love to the woman you love should be easy. If they wanted to have Jon have religious scruples they should have written the man as religious. He’s not. He’d rather send her into battle as a woman scorned for no reason at all. It’s almost as if he’s thinking he doesn’t want to accept a role as consort lest it interfere with his later claim. Sansa is pretty good.
In short, war is hell, and the true villains are the ones who start them. Glad to see Varys co-architect of years of war with Olenna and Littlefinger go. But before I went I remembered the movie he came from, The Caine Mutiny. He was the Fred MacMurray character undermining Captain Queeg (Bogart) to the Van Johnson character. But too late for a Jose Ferrer character to point out that you should try to help people struggling instead of backstabbing them.
In long, re war is hell: The news tells us that a built up city is where inferior forces have a tactical edge enabling them to hold out for extremely long period, and the only real way to beat them without tremendous casualties is heavy bombardment. Leningrad, Stalingrad taught this to very good German armies. Recent examples include Falluja and Raqqa. Surrendering in the middle of a battle is always fraught with difficulties, which is why it’s so important for the commanders to give surrender orders, instead of going the Tarly route and trying to urge vain sacrifices. The number of dead is probably some times larger than the number of poor, sick, elderly and young who would have died in the prolonged siege Tyrion wanted. I think pretending this is just personal madness instead of standard operating procedure is kind of sleazy.
None of this supports the mad queen scenario. Daenerys refusing to return the Dothraki to the Great Grass Sea or refusing to pay off and retire the Unsullied would be. But that wouldn’t be very believable either.
A believable ending would be Daenerys taking them back east, leaving Jon to be ignominiously slaughtered in a vain effort to keep peace in Westeros. Sansa doing him in personally would be a bit of a stretch. But her invasion to seize Tully lands would be very plausible, and very apt to kill him off. Then Westeros could be free to have constant wars among the kingdoms. Happy endings for all!
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Yeah, that's putting it lightly!
Yes, that's the point. You need a legitimate claim until someone without a legitimate claim comes along without one and takes the throne. And, then the definition of a legitimate claim also changes!
It's exactly what I was saying. A legitimate claim under the current definition helps. It makes it easier to get the political backing to hold the throne. However, if you don't have that claim, it's just a bit harder!
Do you have any female relatives? Would you have sex with them?
Jon's problem is not religion.
Jon is REVOLTED by the discovery and that is a normal reaction.
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