• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Spoilers Avengers: Endgame grade and discussion thread

How do you rate Avengers: Endgame?


  • Total voters
    191
BW has a movie lined up, so at least the question about her will be solved quite soon (unless it's a prequel)

As far as I'm aware it is definitely a prequel. I'm not sure if an official announcement has been made about that, but I don't recall anyone talking about it ever suggesting anything other than the idea it was a prequel. However I had hoped that even with a prequel, they'd want to keep their options open for future movies if the first one was successful enough.

Of course, the whole talk about a Black Widow movie may have just been a red herring to keep people from suspecting her death. There's no official release date, and I don't think there's been much work on it so far in terms of script (?). Although if that's the case they'd better be prepared for some very pissed off fans who are already annoyed about a Black Widow movie having taken this long to start with.
 
,
There's only one problem, where did the new shield come from? Simple, it's new. Probably had Black Panther make a new one after the unsnap. It's not identical there are some small design details on the points of the star that are new I think.

Its also possible that young Steve had the Shield repaired by Suri in Walkanda and repainted..and old Steve just retrieved from where young Steve left it.
 
Avengers: Endgame - Review

The wrap-up of for most of the original MCU characters was a hit and miss production. I will get to the details of whether it was more hit than miss in a moment. The story did warrant the three hour running time, as each lead-in to a solution was drawn out, only for a character (or two) to have their "Eureka!" moment.

GOOD: There were just a few good to strong moments to be found in this outing:
  • Thor's "I knew it!" Yes, that little contest in Age of Ultron had to have been Steve pretending he could barely move Mjolnir to avoid embarrassing Thor. Just another one of Cap's traits that made him one the few beings in the universe worthy enough to lift/wield Mjolnir--and as effectively as Thor himself. His beatdown of Thanos perfectly merging his Cap-tactics with the power of the hammer was a sight to behold. ...and a bit of mockery aimed at those endless fans who saw the Infinity War trailer of Cap holding back Thanos' gauntlet as being evidence of Cap's impending demise
  • Falcon's "On your left" Who else (other than Bucky) would be the one voice he needed to hear? / as the first sign of the dusted members returning
  • Captain Marvel's smile as Peter introduced himself. It almost seemed she thought he was trying--in his clumsy, teenage manner--to put on his best face for her
  • Pepper joining the final battle, now apparently as adept at using the armor and its bells and whistles as Tony
  • Wanda assuring Clint that Natasha is aware of the heroes' victory. Some are already speculating that her soul is "trapped" in another version of the Soul Stone...somewhere, as she was the sacrificed being, thus suggesting the possibility that she could return at some time in the future. That, or Wanda has the power to sense the active souls of those who crossed over to the afterlife. While I would like to see Natasha return, her sacrifice would hurt her own as well as Clint's development, considering her effect on his life in the wake of his being possessed by Loki's scepter.
  • All things Clint. The most marginalized character in the MCU held the MVP status more than once in this film, and seeing his family life makes him one of the most human, appealing of the MCU heroes.
  • Thor meeting his mother. That's all one needs to know about how personally / psychologically destructive time travel to one's own past can be. This was no Marty McFly romp
  • The funeral scene has been analyzed to er..death...but it's pretty clear that the camera ending on Maria Hill, then Carol, and finally Fury meant a couple of things: one, Danvers is set up as the future of the MCU (obviously), along with one of her closest allies/friends in Fury, but it was expected that the shot would end on the man who set up the Avengers in the first place, the perfect coda to this Thanos v Avengers conflict. I wanted to see a moment between Carol and Fury--her response to his return (after the despondent look on her face as she learned he had been dusted)
  • I've always appreciated Clint acting as Wanda's surrogate big brother (Age of Ultron / how quickly she joins him in Civil War), but I wish they had more screen time together, with both now needing a shoulder to lean on
  • The signature of the core / original MCU cast had the feel and intent of the scene which seemed to inspire it--the signature of the main cast at the end of Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country.
BAD: For every great Steve/Cap moment (culminating in the Mjolnir scene), his entire multi-film arc was upended by his decision to stay in the past:
  • Steve refers to Peggy as the love of his life, but in reality, the timeline of Captain America: The First Avenger did not establish that he knew her long enough to have more than an intense crush; there was not enough time for the two to bond to support how he expressed himself in this film. At least with Tony and Pepper, we were able to see their development, the ups and downs--the trials which tested the foundation of their relationship so with every word, one could see how bonded they were.
  • Part of Steve's arc was that he had to accept the hand that fate dealt to him and move forward; in The Winter Soldier, he was able to visit the bedridden Peggy, but he must have known that she did--in fact--move on to marry and have a family, but not with regret, As she pointed out to Steve:
"The world has changed, and none of us can go back. All we can do is our best, and sometimes, the best that we can do, is to start over."
  • ..and he appeared to be prepared to do that. Even as he discovered Bucky was alive, his trying to save his friend was not about reliving the past, but giving his friend a chance to escape the trap that was the Winter Soldier program (and the crimes he committed). His fighting for Bucky in Civil War is an extension of that. Further, in meeting Sam, he found yet another surrogate brother / best friend who seemed to understand him in a way even the other Avengers did not, with the possible exception of Natasha. That's Steve not just moving on (contrary to what he said in this film), but being in the process of making a solid, new life for himself (and whatever happened to his interest in Sharon? Even after Civil War, his working in a unofficial capacity did not mean he had to drop the burgeoning relationship with her).
  • Then, there's the tossed-against-the-wall-and-see-if-it-sticks time travel theory (and that's putting it nicely); if Banner's hypothesis is true:
"If you travel to the past, that past becomes your future, and your former present becomes the past, which can't now be changed by your new future--"
  • ...then Steve could not meet Sam and Bucky as an old man in what was once his original, shared timeline with them, since Banner is suggesting one cannot return to said original, shared timeline, when in fact, he (I'm addressing as First Timeline Steve, or FTS) forever altered it simply by traveling to the past. Ah, but the problems have not even taken off the launchpad: Steve committed a major act of temporal tampering by going back to Peggy--who in the original timeline, ended up with a family. With Peggy now presumably married to Steve, that is definitely a new timeline, which also takes a divergent course by the time of Civil War, where Peggy's funeral was attended by First Timeline Steve, Sam and Natasha.
  • Now, either one believes time will play out as seen in Civil War, or Sam and Natasha will not be in attendance at the funeral, since there's no First Timeline Steve to draw the to the service, and in fact, the damage is even greater, since unlike the original, shared timeline, Sam would never have met First Timeline Steve and become the Falcon, there would have been no one to reach Bucky to restore his true self, etc.
  • Some have already theorized that First Timeline Steve should not be able to exist in the altered past, since there would still be a version of that man frozen in the wreckage of The Valkyrie, waiting to be discovered some seven decades later. If and when he's discovered (again), FTS would be an old man, but his younger self is supposed to simply slip right into that same series of events starting with the conclusion of The First Avenger? If Banner was correct, that frozen Steve--the Altered Timeline Steve (or ATS) would be waking up in a very different reality--and one not shared by original timeline Sam and Bucky--therefore, Bucky would not expect to see the old Steve on the bench, no matter what FTS told him before the trip.
  • Additionally, someone might ask what's to stop FTS from trying to locate the facility where Bucky was being transformed into the Winter Soldier and perform a rescue operation, which would not only restore his friend to a fairly normal life in or around his natural time, but possibly spare the lives of endless assassination victims, including Tony's parents? I'm sure someone would say, "Hydra would just send someone else to kill them..," but what would stop the already time-manipulating FTS from continuing to alter history, since he did exactly that by being with Peggy? He knows when the Starks were killed, and could easily work to prevent that from happening. He should not see this as a problem, as he would have no expectation of the timeline he created to have any bearing on the First Timeline he left behind/ahead.
Aside from the many plotting and character problems surrounding Steve's decision, the trip to 2012--the New York battle sees Steve create yet more problems; not only does he tell his earlier, FTS self that Bucky is alive; even if earlier FTS did not believe him, the mere fact that the idea was floated out there would alters some decisions--perhaps inspire him to look into the possibility of Bucky surviving.

Then, there's the "Hail Hydra" line; unlike the original, shared timeline, were Pierce, Sitwell, Rumlow, et al., were convinced Steve was an enemy who (ultimately) needed to be killed though the Project Insight program, FTS convincing the Hydra moles that he was a loyal member alters the future drastically. In this altered timeline, Cap would either have the protection of Hydra, or his earlier, unaware self (post 2012) would eventually be tested and exposed as a threat, as each member would have had no previous knowledge of Steve joining Hydra (in other words, no verification from Pierce and Co.), thus,that little ploy from FTS would stand a good chance of costing his earlier self his life.

Finally, Steve--loyal as he seems to be in the MCU--should not even consider leaving behind his two best friends/surrogate brothers, after all they've been through not only in battle, but as friends They were/are his true family, and provided a support system for Steve to continue his journey as part of the present--doing exactly what old Peggy suggested. In the end, that decision was just a poor way of getting Cap out of the MCU (becoming an old man) without killing him off.

Although Avengers: Endgame made many a joke about the time travel tropes of TV and movie sci-fi productions, it read as if the screenwriters trying to play a little psychological game with the audience, meaning, if they have characters write off nearly every popular media interpretation of time travel as nonsense, Banner's theory would be critic proof (from fans injecting their own challenges to his theory based on other films), and as a result, seem plausible. Well, if that was the intent, it did not work, as explained above. I would say 95% of time travel stories make little to no sense whatsoever, including the one used in A:E.
Its as filled with eyebrow-raising theories as any I've seen before, generating more challenges to / questions about it than anything else (much like Admiral Kirk selling his eyeglasses to a pawnshop in the otherwise great Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home, only to confidently state the glasses were--and would be a gift again, when he could not know the glasses' historic chain of possession, and if his sale forever altered it ever coming into McCoy's possession).

No Netflix Marvel characters. That was a major missed opportunity.

So ends the adventures of the original core group of MCU characters. I'm not sure how the next phase will play out, and if there's anyone left with a character (and actor interpretation) as effective as the best of the original group (Evans as Cap/Steve above all others). Further, I am very interested in checking out the Falcon/Bucky series, and if its less buddy cop format, and more about how they must carry the weight of the world on their shoulders (and live up to Steve's expectations), in a new, somewhat depressing world.

GRADE: A tightrope-walking balance between C+ / B-
 
Last edited:
New York times interview with screenwriters Christopher Markus and Stephen mcfeely. It didn't answoer all my questions, but it covers a lot of the ground we've been discussing here. For instance, there was discussion as to whether the all woman hero shot was pandering or not

At first glance it appeared to be, but the same kind of shot (on a smaller scale) happened in Infinity War as Black Widow and Okoye backed up Wanda against Proxima Midnight. Yes, the world knows the A:E version was a message, but it was its own moment and not happening at the expense of male characters, which is what you're probably already hearing elsewhere.
 
Avengers: Endgame - Review

The wrap-up of for most of the original MCU characters was a hit and miss production. I will get to the details of whether it was more hit than miss in a moment. The story did warrant the three hour running time, as each lead-in to a solution was drawn out, only for a character (or two) to have their "Eureka!" moment.

GOOD: There were just a few good to strong moments to be found in this outing:
  • Thor's "I knew it!" Yes, that little contest in Age of Ultron had to have been Steve pretending he could barely move Mjolnir to avoid embarrassing Thor. Just another one of Cap's traits that made him one the few beings in the universe worthy enough to lift/wield Mjolnir--and as effectively as Thor himself. His beatdown of Thanos perfectly merging his Cap-tactics with the power of the hammer was a sight to behold. ...and a bit of mockery aimed at those endless fans who saw the Infinity War trailer of Cap holding back Thanos' gauntlet as being evidence of Cap's impending demise
  • Falcon's "On your left" Who else (other than Bucky) would be the one voice he needed to hear? / as the first sign of the dusted members returning
  • Captain Marvel's smile as Peter introduced himself. It almost seemed she thought he was trying--in his clumsy, teenage manner--to put on his best face for her
  • Pepper joining the final battle, now apparently as adept at using the armor and its bells and whistles as Tony
  • Wanda assuring Clint that Natasha is aware of the heroes' victory. Some are already speculating that her soul is "trapped" in another version of the Soul Stone...somewhere, as she was the sacrificed being, thus suggesting the possibility that she could return at some time in the future. That, or Wanda has the power to sense the active souls of those who crossed over to the afterlife. While I would like to see Natasha return, her sacrifice would hurt her own as well as Clint's development, considering her effect on his life in the wake of his being possessed by Loki's scepter.
  • All things Clint. The most marginalized character in the MCU held the MVP status more than once in this film, and seeing his family life makes him one of the most human, appealing of the MCU heroes.
  • Thor meeting his mother. That's all one needs to know about how personally / psychologically destructive time travel to one's own past can be. This was no Marty McFly romp
  • The funeral scene has been analyzed to er..death...but it's pretty clear that the camera ending on Maria Hill, then Carol, and finally Fury meant a couple of things: one, Danvers is set up as the future of the MCU (obviously), along with one of her closest allies/friends in Fury, but it was expected that the shot would end on the man who set up the Avengers in the first place, the perfect coda to this Thanos v Avengers conflict. I wanted to see a moment between Carol and Fury--her response to his return (after the despondent look on her face as she learned he had been dusted)
  • I've always appreciated Clint acting as Wanda's surrogate big brother (Age of Ultron / how quickly she joins him in Civil War), but I wish they had more screen time together, with both now needing a shoulder to lean on
  • The signature of the core / original MCU cast had the feel and intent of the scene which seemed to inspire it--the signature of the main cast at the end of Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country.
BAD: For every great Steve/Cap moment (culminating in the Mjolnir scene), his entire multi-film arc was upended by his decision to stay in the past:
  • Steve refers to Peggy as the love of his life, but in reality, the timeline of Captain America: The First Avenger did not establish that he knew her long enough to have more than an intense crush; there was not enough time for the two to bond to support how he expressed himself in this film. At least with Tony and Pepper, we were able to see their development, the ups and downs--the trials which tested the foundation of their relationship so with every word, one could see how bonded they were.
  • Part of Steve's arc was that he had to accept the hand that fate dealt to him and move forward; in The Winter Soldier, he was able to visit the bedridden Peggy, but he must have known that she did--in fact--move on to marry and have a family, but not with regret, As she pointed out to Steve:
"The world has changed, and none of us can go back. All we can do is our best, and sometimes, the best that we can do, is to start over."
  • ..and he appeared to be prepared to do that. Even as he discovered Bucky was alive, his trying to save his friend was not about reliving the past, but giving his friend a chance to escape the trap that was the Winter Soldier program (and the crimes he committed). His fighting for Bucky in Civil War is an extension of that. Further, in meeting Sam, he found yet another surrogate brother / best friend who seemed to understand him in a way even the other Avengers did not, with the possible exception of Natasha. That's Steve not just moving on (contrary to what he said in this film), but being in the process of making a solid, new life for himself (and whatever happened to his interest in Sharon? Even after Civil War, his working in a unofficial capacity did not mean he had to drop the burgeoning relationship with her).
  • Then, there's the tossed-against-the-wall-and-see-if-it-sticks time travel theory (and that's putting it nicely); if Banner's hypothesis is true:
"If you travel to the past, that past becomes your future, and your former present becomes the past, which can't now be changed by your new future--"
  • ...then Steve could not meet Sam and Bucky as an old man in what was once his original, shared timeline with them, since Banner is suggesting one cannot return to said original, shared timeline, when in fact, he (I'm addressing as First Timeline Steve, or FTS) forever altered it simply by traveling to the past. Ah, but the problems have not even taken off the launchpad: Steve committed a major act of temporal tampering by going back to Peggy--who in the original timeline, ended up with a family. With Peggy now presumably married to Steve, that is definitely a new timeline, which also takes a divergent course by the time of Civil War, where Peggy's funeral was attended by First Timeline Steve, Sam and Natasha.
  • Now, either one believes time will play out as seen in Civil War, or Sam and Natasha will not be in attendance at the funeral, since there's no First Timeline Steve to draw the to the service, and in fact, the damage is even greater, since unlike the original, shared timeline, Sam would never have met First Timeline Steve and become the Falcon, there would have been no one to reach Bucky to restore his true self, etc.
  • Some have already theorized that First Timeline Steve should not be able to exist in the altered past, since there would still be a version of that man frozen in the wreckage of The Valkyrie, waiting to be discovered some seven decades later. If and when he's discovered (again), FTS would be an old man, but his younger self is supposed to simply slip right into that same series of events starting with the conclusion of The First Avenger? If Banner was correct, that frozen Steve--the Altered Timeline Steve (or ATS) would be waking up in a very different reality--and one not shared by original timeline Sam and Bucky--therefore, Bucky would not expect to see the old Steve on the bench, no matter what FTS told him before the trip.
  • Additionally, someone might ask what's to stop FTS from trying to locate the facility where Bucky was being transformed into the Winter Soldier and perform a rescue operation, which would not only restore his friend to a fairly normal life in or around his natural time, but possibly spare the lives of endless assassination victims, including Tony's parents? I'm sure someone would say, "Hydra would just send someone else to kill them..," but what would stop the already time-manipulating FTS from continuing to alter history, since he did exactly that by being with Peggy? He knows when the Starks were killed, and could easily work to prevent that from happening. He should not see this as a problem, as he would have no expectation of the timeline he created to have any bearing on the First Timeline he left behind/ahead.
Aside from the many plotting and character problems surrounding Steve's decision, the trip to 2012--the New York battle sees Steve create yet more problems; not only does he tell his earlier, FTS self that Bucky is alive; even if earlier FTS did not believe him, the mere fact that the idea was floated out there would alters some decisions--perhaps inspire him to look into the possibility of Bucky surviving.

Then, there's the "Hail Hydra" line; unlike the original, shared timeline, were Pierce, Sitwell, Rumlow, et al., were convinced Steve was an enemy who (ultimately) needed to be killed though the Project Insight program, FTS convincing the Hydra moles that he was a loyal member alters the future drastically. In this altered timeline, Cap would either have the protection of Hydra, or his earlier, unaware self (post 2012) would eventually be tested and exposed as a threat, as each member would have had no previous knowledge of Steve joining Hydra (in other words, no verification from Pierce and Co.), thus,that little ploy from FTS would stand a good chance of costing his earlier self his life.

Finally, Steve--loyal as he seems to be in the MCU--should not even consider leaving behind his two best friends/surrogate brothers, after all they've been through not only in battle, but as friends They were/are his true family, and provided a support system for Steve to continue his journey as part of the present--doing exactly what old Peggy suggested. In the end, that decision was just a poor way of getting Cap out of the MCU (becoming an old man) without killing him off.

Although Avengers: Endgame made many a joke about the time travel tropes of TV and movie sci-fi productions, it read as if the screenwriters trying to play a little psychological game with the audience, meaning, if they have characters write off nearly every popular media interpretation of time travel as nonsense, Banner's theory would be critic proof (from fans injecting their own challenges to his theory based on other films), and as a result, seem plausible. Well, if that was the intent, it did not work, as explained above. I would say 95% of time travel stories make little to no sense whatsoever, including the one used in A:E.
Its as filled with eyebrow-raising theories as any I've seen before, generating more challenges to / questions about it than anything else (much like Admiral Kirk selling his eyeglasses to a pawnshop in the otherwise great Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home, only to confidently state the glasses were--and would be a gift again, when he could not know the glasses' historic chain of possession, and if his sale forever altered it ever coming into McCoy's possession).

No Netflix Marvel characters. That was a major missed opportunity.

So ends the adventures of the original core group of MCU characters. I'm not sure how the next phase will play out, and if there's anyone left with a character (and actor interpretation) as effective as the best of the original group (Evans as Cap/Steve above all others). Further, I am very interested in checking out the Falcon/Bucky series, and if its less buddy cop format, and more about how they must carry the weight of the world on their shoulders (and live up to Steve's expectations), in a new, somewhat depressing world.

GRADE: A tightrope-walking balance between C+ / B-
That was a really good review!
 
For every great Steve/Cap moment (culminating in the Mjolnir scene), his entire multi-film arc was upended by his decision to stay in the past

I was a little disappointed in that too. I understand the need to write out his character, and I absolutely wanted to see him use the time travel plot to get his dance with Peggy, but it should have been a one off thing which ended with him leaving his past behind him.
 
Then, there's the "Hail Hydra" line; unlike the original, shared timeline, were Pierce, Sitwell, Rumlow, et al., were convinced Steve was an enemy who (ultimately) needed to be killed though the Project Insight program, FTS convincing the Hydra moles that he was a loyal member alters the future drastically. In this altered timeline, Cap would either have the protection of Hydra, or his earlier, unaware self (post 2012) would eventually be tested and exposed as a threat, as each member would have had no previous knowledge of Steve joining Hydra (in other words, no verification from Pierce and Co.), thus,that little ploy from FTS would stand a good chance of costing his earlier self his life.

You're forgetting the context of this scene. It happens literally right before Captain America fights himself who is convinced he's actually Loki, because Loki has just escaped and everyone saw him change his appearance to mock Steve while he was still a prisoner. Regardless of what you may or may not think about the time travel concepts of the movie, it's 100% obvious that as soon as a timeline is pieced together Hydra will realize that the sceptre was stolen by 'Loki', not by their Captain America. It may scare them shitless that Loki knows they exist, but it wouldn't change their relationship with Cap at all.
 
Cap and Peggy have been a thing for nearly every movie he's in. Cap being cut off from his time and everyone he knew plays a large part in why he is the way he is, it's why he's so devoted to Bucky since he is his one tie to his time. Him being unable to go home is shown as a nightmare in Age of Ultron.
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
It makes perfect sense that if given the chance, he would go and stay with Peggy. He never got over her, something that Black Widow commented on. I love his ending, he got a happy one.
 
Three types of people got married in the olden days, preggoes, lynchmob avoiding gays and virgins.

Steve is still a virgin in 2019?

Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex applies.

Virgins have a magnified faith in feelings like true love.
 
Steve refers to Peggy as the love of his life, but in reality, the timeline of Captain America: The First Avenger did not establish that he knew her long enough to have more than an intense crush; there was not enough time for the two to bond to support how he expressed himself in this film.

Don't follow that logic. Even in fast-forward mode of TFA it was clear that Peggy and Steve worked closely together from the beginning of his involvement with Erskine to the day he flew that plane into the ocean, especially during the times with the Howling Commandos. I think that's enough time to develop more than a crush even if their mutual feelings were never realized.

And you're kind of contradicting yourself with:

(and whatever happened to his interest in Sharon? Even after Civil War, his working in a unofficial capacity did not mean he had to drop the burgeoning relationship with her).

Why keep people harping on about that "relationship". They met in TWS, 2 years later(!) they managed one kiss after apparently no contact in between. I wouldn't call that a hot and steamy love story, especially considering the circumstances with Peggy's loss and Bucky's troubles.

After a further 2 years no one talks about Sharon in IW (with Cap on the run), why wasn't that an issue there?... And why should anyone talk about her after 5 more years?

Would it be nice to have her name mentionned now and again? Yes, especially since I'd like to have seen her thrown into jail and be done with her. But let's stop trying to build her up to "love of his life"-levels.


Ah, interesting article...

... but doesn't it sort of contradict itself? Pretty much at the beginning they write:

"First of all, when the heroes go back in time, the moment they affect events in a way that really significantly changes the course of events and alters the future, it creates a divergent timeline."

... The article goes on to actually only discuss why Steve didn't show up on the platform (an analysis which I agree on).

But where I have my issues is that Steve created another divergent timeline by going back to the 1940s. So, how did he end up in our original one? By the way timetravel is explained in this movie and in the analysis, a "time-loop" can't happen (because of the creation of divergent timelines)... so how did Steve skip to his original timeline when he came back?

Unless of course, Steve going back, hiding himself under an assumed identity and living out his life with Peggy doesn't constitute a "significant change"... Then he wouldn't create a divergent timeline (but a kind of time-loop)...

I'm more confused than before. *g*
 
Last edited:
I understand your point, but race is a major theme of the movie considering the villains motivations and end goal.

I didn't see it that way at all. You could even argue that Killmonger's motivations were more revenge and nationalism at most. Killmonger's father was killed by the King of Wakanda. And he was punished for the sins of his father. If T'Challa were white, the movie could have played out exactly the same. But I wouldn't want that because that would be disrespectful to the creator of the character and the fans that made the character popular enough to warrant a movie.

. For instance, there was discussion as to whether the all woman hero shot was pandering or not, but they decided that the scene was just too fun to cut.

It was pandering, but honestly, it wasn't ruin the movie pandering.

Thor's "I knew it!" Yes, that little contest in Age of Ultron had to have been Steve pretending he could barely move Mjolnir to avoid embarrassing Thor. Just another one of Cap's traits that made him one the few beings in the universe worthy enough to lift/wield Mjolnir--and as effectively as Thor himself. His beatdown of Thanos perfectly merging his Cap-tactics with the power of the hammer was a sight to behold. ...and a bit of mockery aimed at those endless fans who saw the Infinity War trailer of Cap holding back Thanos' gauntlet as being evidence of Cap's impending demise

I think they should have touched on this more after the main action. In the comics, a worthy person can wield the hammer in times of great need, and the battle with Thanos certainly qualified. But when the battle is over, and the need is gone, that same person won't be able to lift it. Problem is, as it played out, I think we would have had to see Cap return it to Asgard for that explanation to happen. In the comics, this happened to Superman. He was able to wield the hammer at one point, but when the battle was over, he couldn't lift it.

...then Steve could not meet Sam and Bucky as an old man in what was once his original, shared timeline with them, since Banner is suggesting one cannot return to said original, shared timeline, when in fact, he (I'm addressing as First Timeline Steve, or FTS) forever altered it simply by traveling to the past. Ah, but the problems have not even taken off the launchpad: Steve committed a major act of temporal tampering by going back to Peggy--who in the original timeline, ended up with a family. With Peggy now presumably married to Steve, that is definitely a new timeline, which also takes a divergent course by the time of Civil War, where Peggy's funeral was attended by First Timeline Steve, Sam and Natasha.

In fairness, what do we know about Peggy's husband? How do we know that it wasn't Steve all along? What if Steve told her everything, created a new identity, and told her that he could be with her until 2012 or so, and stayed out of site once he knew Peggy would encounter his younger self?

Think about this--in 1970, which would have been after Peggy married, she still had a picture of Steve on her desk. That's pretty disrespectful to her husband--unless her husband was actually Steve.

No Netflix Marvel characters. That was a major missed opportunity.

Agreed. If you rewatch the final battle, there were tons of characters. You could have given them no lines and still had them there. Imagine seeing Coulson show up.
 
I didn't see it that way at all. You could even argue that Killmonger's motivations were more revenge and nationalism at most. Killmonger's father was killed by the King of Wakanda. And he was punished for the sins of his father. If T'Challa were white, the movie could have played out exactly the same. But I wouldn't want that because that would be disrespectful to the creator of the character and the fans that made the character popular enough to warrant a movie.

Except revenge against T'challa wasn't Killmongers sole goal. I'm talking more about his plan to deploy weapons around the world and basically instigate a race war for the crimes committed against people of colour


Think about this--in 1970, which would have been after Peggy married, she still had a picture of Steve on her desk. That's pretty disrespectful to her husband

Maybe her husband was into it?
 
Except revenge against T'challa wasn't Killmongers sole goal. I'm talking more about his plan to deploy weapons around the world and basically instigate a race war for the crimes committed against people of colour

I'd have to rewatch, but that seemed more nationalistic than racial to me.

Maybe her husband was into it?

Not if her husband WAS Steve. Peggy WAS a spy, and the 1940s/50s didn't exactly have a digital footprint.
 
It's not wrong if it's the new face of the franchise apparently:
tumblr_po74jrnGkJ1xpdwtoo9_r1_400.gif

If Brie Larson is entitled to her opinion and what she says there is ok, then so is everyone else entitled to their opinions.

Anyhow, this is my last comment about this topic in this thread. I know which way the wind is blowing, so let's all drop it.
Wow. I never even heard of that one. Judging by the box office I'd say I wasn't the only one who missed that movie. Since it wasn't made for me anyways I'll make sure to not bother.
 
Wow. I never even heard of that one. Judging by the box office I'd say I wasn't the only one who missed that movie. Since it wasn't made for me anyways I'll make sure to not bother.

Eh, she may have been a tad too blunt but she had a valid point about how some out of touch guy from the Hollywood Elite Overclass wouldn't understand a demographic as well as someone FROM that demographic.

Anyways, folks don't seem to consider that what Steve did at the end was merely become part of a stable time loop. You can't CHANGE the past, like Bruce said, but if you were always meant to go back and become part of past history then that isn't changing it.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top