Season 7 - So many things gone wrong.

[kkt]

They could probably take the holosuite program to any other holosuite. It was technically Julian's program, so he'd get it.

Using the holosuite seems natural for the 25th century or whatever we're at, in a station built for ore processing and Cardassian sector headquarters. No reason to provide a concert hall, when you've got the holosuite. It's no more peculiar than characters set in the 21st century listening to streaming music when they could go to a concert hall.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

They could probably take the holosuite program to any other holosuite. It was technically Julian's program, so he'd get it.

Using the holosuite seems natural for the 25th century or whatever we're at, in a station built for ore processing and Cardassian sector headquarters. No reason to provide a concert hall, when you've got the holosuite. It's no more peculiar than characters set in the 21st century listening to streaming music when they could go to a concert hall.

For that matter,it might be easier for a venue to have holographic projectors rather than store chairs, tables, set pieces, etc. It would be simply simpler to configure the program to whatever the night's entertainment will be.

 

[Takeru]

That makes no sense. DS9 was not the Enterprise. The economy of design on TNG was fundamentally different from the opulence of the Promenade. There was a replimat (not to mention the replicators in all the quarters), but there was also Quark's, the Klingon restaurant, street vendords, and probably a dozen restaurants that were only mentioned in passing. The Promenade could have had its own concert hall, perhaps one which could feature holographic performers. The only thing peculiar about Vic's was that it was internal to Quark's restaurant.

Of course DS9 would have a bunch of those but Vic's as a set was redundant for the show, they didn't need another place for the crew to hang out, someone just wanted a place with an mid 20th century vegas vibe and that's ok but they spend too much time on Vic as a character.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Of course DS9 would have a bunch of those but Vic's as a set was redundant for the show, they didn't need another place for the crew to hang out, someone just wanted a place with an mid 20th century vegas vibe and that's ok but they spend too much time on Vic as a character.

So what? Why would there be no diversity? And given the nature of the setting, isn't it important to show that diversity? Maybe instead of Vic's it should have been a pub in Dublin, but the inclusion of competing venues makes sense in DS9's premise.

 

[Nakita Akita]

So what? Why would there be no diversity? And given the nature of the setting, isn't it important to show that diversity? Maybe instead of Vic's it should have been a pub in Dublin, but the inclusion of competing venues makes sense in DS9's premise.

In that vein, maybe we should have had 1 Vic episode, one Dublin pub episode, one New Orleans honky-tonk, one Bajoran Katter- pod party, instead of all Vic episodes.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

In that vein, maybe we should have had 1 Vic episode, one Dublin pub episode, one New Orleans honky-tonk, one Bajoran Katter- pod party, instead of all Vic episodes.

I think so. The promenade was the coolest thing about the DS9 set. First, they could do camerawork that was unavailable to the other series. Second, it also made the sense of a public square in the future more concrete--there were real people who benefitted from the Federation, but also who had a say in what it did. Third, there was a sense that something new could be discovered or pop up overnight. New clubs, new venues, new restaurants, new merchants, … . Extrapolating from @kkt 's comment, holographic technology could have been used to make the design and layout of not only flexible, but dynamic, allowing the customers to adapt their experience. Why wouldn't Quark want to have private dining rooms that could be reconfigured with a simple command?

I will always admit that Vic was at best a confusing inclusion. There were a few great moments from the character, no doubt: Here's to the Losers, Paper Moon, The Way You Look Tonight. Would those moments work without the other episodes? Arguably no. Perhaps more importantly, there is a significant minority of fandom who like these slices of holodeck fantasy. I could do without them, but I don't see any need to crusade against Big Goodbye, Fistful of Datas, or Badda Bing Badda Bang when others enjoy the temporary changes in tone.

Was Vic a strange choice? If you are going to have a Jazz venue, wouldn't it reflect the tastes of Sisko (and by extension, Brooks)? Brooks didn't seem to like doing holodeck stuff the way other actors in the franchise did. The casino thing may have been an attempt to bring back a little more of Our Man Bashir. If I were to have designed a venue for the station, my Jazz club would have been darker, smokier and funkier--and far less antisceptic, and definitely blacker.

 

[Nakita Akita]

I think so. The promenade was the coolest thing about the DS9 set. First, they could do camerawork that was unavailable to the other series. Second, it also made the sense of a public square in the future more concrete--there were real people who benefitted from the Federation, but also who had a say in what it did. Third, there was a sense that something new could be discovered or pop up overnight. New clubs, new venues, new restaurants, new merchants, … . Extrapolating from @kkt 's comment, holographic technology could have been used to make the design and layout of not only flexible, but dynamic, allowing the customers to adapt their experience. Why wouldn't Quark want to have private dining rooms that could be reconfigured with a simple command?

I will always admit that Vic was at best a confusing inclusion. There were a few great moments from the character, no doubt: Here's to the Losers, Paper Moon, The Way You Look Tonight. Would those moments work without the other episodes? Arguably no. Perhaps more importantly, there is a significant minority of fandom who like these slices of holodeck fantasy. I could do without them, but I don't see any need to crusade against Big Goodbye, Fistful of Datas, or Badda Bing Badda Bang when others enjoy the temporary changes in tone.

Was Vic a strange choice? If you are going to have a Jazz venue, wouldn't it reflect the tastes of Sisko (and by extension, Brooks)? Brooks didn't seem to like doing holodeck stuff the way other actors in the franchise did. The casino thing may have been an attempt to bring back a little more of Our Man Bashir. If I were to have designed a venue for the station, my Jazz club would have been darker, smokier and funkier--and far less antisceptic, and definitely blacker.

I think even calling it a jazz club is a stretch.
Las Vegas lounge, should be more apropos.
Vic=lounge singer, not a jazz singer.

 

[guyute03]

I liked Ezri but generally agree with the rest. I can't stand Vic Fontaine. The Mirror U episodes, with the exception of the excellent first one from season 2, were pointless and had little to no point or effect on the main universe.

 

[Sakonna]

Also in What You Leave Behind, my biggest misgivings were the pacing in the Fire Caves, where time seemed to come to a standstill until Sisko turned up.

Bajor was still out of the Federation by the series' end. Obviously it stayed out to be safe from the Dominion when they came knocking at DS9 in season five. Still, just a line about Bajor making a fresh application by Kira in the final scene would have been nice.

I assume they could not have afforded the sets or locations, but I always thought that final Vic's party just needed to be replaced with all the characters gathering for a big signing ceremony where Bajor at last joins the UFP. And that's what you have Winn & Dukat targeting, working kind of as lone-wolf terrorists, radicalized by propaganda while off on their own, plotting mayhem in the pagh wraiths name -- they're going to blow up the ceremony and kill everyone.

And then Sisko saves the day, and ascends, and it all ties in perfectly. Bajor put off joining the Federation till the war is over, so that makes sense as a post-war beat. It's a good reason to gather the characters in celebration, as they wanted to do at this point of the episode. Sisko's final action being "getting Bajor into the Federation", which would have presumably been one of the most pivotal events in the entirety of Bajoran history, is a much more inspiring final achievement than "throw book in fire."

And shepherding Bajor into the Federation was something that Sisko was uniquely equipped to do, it connected to his specific qualities as a man, and it was something he dealt with in an ongoing way for 7 years!

Meanwhile, any idiot can come along and throw one book in one fire.

I feel it was explained adequately. Ezri Tegan was not part of the symbiont program, and thus not bound by the same strictures of other joined Trill, like Jadzia. Indeed, it was said that at this point, there really wasn't much that could be done to normalize Ezri's experiences once she was joined. She was on her own to follow the best path she could.

I never quite understood how this didn't blow up the Symbiosis Commission's cover-up of all the Joran/"Equilibrium" revelations. If the one Trill who just happened to be around could take a symbiont just fine with no prep whatsoever...

 

[kkt]

I never quite understood how this didn't blow up the Symbiosis Commission's cover-up of all the Joran/"Equilibrium" revelations. If the one Trill who just happened to be around could take a symbiont just fine with no prep whatsoever...

Well, Ezri didn't take the symbiont totally fine. She spent half the season wandering around wondering who she was and what her tastes were. I assume the disorientation phase isn't nearly that long if the host is properly prepared. Yes, the Symbiosis Commissions line was previously that mismatched or unprepared hosts would make the join much more of a problem and possibly fatal to one or both. So the Commission is stuck saying they just got really lucky that Ezri Dax wasn't fatal and the disorientation phase wasn't even worse.

 

[at Quark's]

There was a lot that was more peculiar than Vic's being inside Quark's.
That whole thing was peculiar.
Remember the sentient hologram on the Enterprise? Lots of problems with that.
What happens to Vic when Quark wants to retire and they want to demolish the holosuites?

"Hello Enterprise? You still have that cube you put Moriarti in? We may have a roommate for him ...."

 

[Nakita Akita]

"Hello Enterprise? You still have that cube you put Moriarti in? We may have a roommate for him ...."

But when the Enterprise crashed on the planet.........

 

[at Quark's]

"... perhaps he might even help with that attitude problem of that other hologram in there. That Mark 1 has been very cranky since the Daystrom Institute confiscated that 29th century emitter from him for further study and botched it".

 

[BillJ]

Vic Fontaine has always been a sizable hurdle to my getting into later DS9.

 

[DarKush]

From what I recall I liked most of Season 7. I didn't have a problem with the new Dax, though in hindsight I can agree that the time spent on that character could've gone to Kassidy, Jake (who was all but forgotten as the season went on), or someone else. And perhaps just introduce her character in the series finale, and hint an attraction between her and Bashir.

Other things that I wouldn't mind seeing changed or different:
-Didn't care for the last Section 31 episode. I'm not a big fan of the in-your-head, or someone's mind-kind of episodes. I thought killing Sloan off wasn't a great move. He was a good foil for Bashir. I would've liked the idea that he was still out there to torment the doctor if the show ever came back.
-Even though the Breen were fine, if the Tholians or Gorn had been named as the new Dominion partners it might have had more of a punch from Star Trek franchise/legacy perspective. Also, I wish we had seen some Son'a ships alongside the Jem'Hadar and Cardassian ships in the big battles.
-Seeing the Enterprise-E (a Picard or Riker voice over would've sufficed) in the fight over Cardassia Prime would've been sweet. I don't think any Sovereign-class ships were on DS9 and that's a shame.
-The Season 7 Mirror Universe episode wasn't really necessary.
-Quickly replacing the Defiant, with another Defiant-class ship. I would've been fine with them bringing a new ship into the mix.
-Dukat: I've long thought leaving him a blind beggar on the streets of Bajor, stuck in the guise of a Bajoran would've been a sweet celestial revenge on him, and also kept him around if they needed to bring him back.
-Winn: I thought Winn should've been the final emissary of the Pah' Wraith's instead.

 

[kkt]

Dukat: Kira should have killed him, like she said she was going to in By Inferno's Light.

 

[Sakonna]

-Dukat: I've long thought leaving him a blind beggar on the streets of Bajor, stuck in the guise of a Bajoran would've been a sweet celestial revenge on him, and also kept him around if they needed to bring him back.

Or both fates combined... I wanted to see this when it was happening in the show narrative, but in my headcannon, this is also what Dukat is experiencing in Pagh Wraith Hell. It's the way some seasons of American Horror Story have represented hell -- your worst, most torturous, most miserable moments from life relentlessly repeating. I imagine this is how Dukat spent the rest of eternity, trapped in endless cycles of brutalization and degradation as a blind Bajoran beggar.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Ezri Dax was one of the best things to happen to the show, especially by the point she came on.

Dax should have gone through several hosts over the course of the series, like at least three overall, because that's the story-telling opportunity that the Trill symbiont presented. Why have such a character at all, if you're not going to utilize the features that her species provides?

Wanna see the surprise, tragic, mid-series, and mid-season exit of a beloved main character done right? Take a look at Person of Interest.

Vic Fontaine has always been a sizable hurdle to my getting into later DS9.

Ditto. Holodeck outta control.

 

[Roundabout]

I think even calling it a jazz club is a stretch.
Las Vegas lounge, should be more apropos.
Vic=lounge singer, not a jazz singer.

It was Neil Diamond who was the jazz singer.



For those who can't stand Vic Fontaine, watch "The Emperor's New Cloak"; you might get a kick out of it. In it, Vic was gunned down, shot to death. No more Vic. Unfortunately, it was only mirror universe Vic.



I wasn't crazy about the Dukat / pah wraith storyline, but at least the Dukat / Kai Winn relationship was amusing. The two of them behaved like a quarrelsome couple. The put downs and insults that they threw at one another was actually hilarious.

 

[Kor]

I wasn't keen on Dukat suddenly getting religious, either. I thought it didn't fit his character to actually believe it.

Kor