The dialog established that Holdo believed in Poe, when she confided to Leia that she liked him. Holdo just felt that Poe had one or two lessons to learn about setting proper priorities before ascending to a higher level of leadership.
Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Teaser Trailer
- Thread starter MacLeod
- Start date
But do you try and teach those lesson in the middle of a crisis? I don't know if they have something like basic training but that is where I think you try and teach. When you got enemy ships chasing and closing in then I think just not getting killed is the highest priority. Also in terms of rank I think you got to also consider many senior officers were killed when Leia almost died in space. You would think Poe's rank in the chain of command would go up simply because to many people above him were simply killed. Between the pilots lost and those killed in the attack they lost a great deal of personal in a very short period of time.
Jason
Point to me on the doll where I said that Holdo was mentoring Poe.
Yeah, she was basically telling him to cool his jets because the situation was being dealt with.
Sure, but I was responding to a specific sentence.
But then you went on to talk about how there might be a spy or something...so by your own admission, she is keeping a secret plan.
Or people don't like paper-thin characters whose only function is to stifle a main character and their criticisms of said character are a reflection of that. Holdo is the boss of an '80s cop who just won't let him do his job, damn it! And yes, the whole little subplot somehow teaches Poe a lesson he needed to learn that Leia couldn't possibly have taught him herself.
Not mentoring but she is his commanding officer. She treats him basically like crap despite the fact she just meet him which is a kind of piss poor way to gain trust of people who you are going to lead. Even if your going to chew someone out you at least do it in private instead of out in the open. Also what exactly does she think anyone is going to do with this secret plan? Getting people to safety is top secret stuff? Granted that isn't the characters fault. The whole strategy was pretty flawed anyways. Lots of bad strategy all around in the movie.
Jason
You mean the plan that depends upon the First Order not knowing that there are cloaked Resistance transports leaving their cruiser and heading down to Crait?
She just asks him to trust her, and doesn't include him inside the inner circle. The fact that he isn't privied to the details doesn't make Holdo a poor leader, in my opinion.
Well. Poe was recently captured. And associated with a know First Order Stormtrooper. That doesn't do much against Poe, but Finn's more or less been wanted out (of everything) since he pulled Poe off that Star Destroyers. The only thing Finn went back for is Rey in TFA.
I think one thing about all this, plot details aside is the biggest issue does come down to the fact the character just wasn't written well or they didn't give us much of a reason to care about her other than it's Laura Dern and Laura Dern is usually good in movies. If we liked the character all this other stuff would be easier to gloss over.
To me this is the main reason, even if it means altering to script it should have been Leia or Lando. Ackbar is a nice minor character who did deserve a better fate then being killed offscreen like he was a extra but it doesn't make sense either to devote a good chuck of your A story to a guy wearing a funny looking fish head.
The other is I question the logic of trying to deconstruct the action hero lovable rogue in a franchise and even genre that thrives on this type of character and has already sort of stood the test of time. Going after Luke and even Jedi makes since because their was always something kind of stuffy about the whole Jedi thing. Ironically the Prequels I think kind of got their first because the Jedi don't come off looking so good when you look at those movies and frankly neither did the Republic. They looked aristocratic and immune to things like maybe not just accepting clone slaves as soliders is a good or moral thing to do. The lovable rogue though is just a type of character that is to much fun. How can anyone dislike this type of character is just strange.
Holdo still could have worked even despite that if they either made her nicer or at least called out that she is kind of a asshole but I don't think the writers noticed she is kind of a asshole. You could then at least have the lovable rogue going up against the sort of hard ass boss type that is inflexible but also with a sense of honor despite his or her gruff exterior. With what we see on screen you feel like you could have ended it with both characters learning a lesson from each other but then that would have gotten in the way of the deconstruction even if it would have been more satisfying in terms of character development.
Jason
To me this is the main reason, even if it means altering to script it should have been Leia or Lando. Ackbar is a nice minor character who did deserve a better fate then being killed offscreen like he was a extra but it doesn't make sense either to devote a good chuck of your A story to a guy wearing a funny looking fish head.
The other is I question the logic of trying to deconstruct the action hero lovable rogue in a franchise and even genre that thrives on this type of character and has already sort of stood the test of time. Going after Luke and even Jedi makes since because their was always something kind of stuffy about the whole Jedi thing. Ironically the Prequels I think kind of got their first because the Jedi don't come off looking so good when you look at those movies and frankly neither did the Republic. They looked aristocratic and immune to things like maybe not just accepting clone slaves as soliders is a good or moral thing to do. The lovable rogue though is just a type of character that is to much fun. How can anyone dislike this type of character is just strange.
Holdo still could have worked even despite that if they either made her nicer or at least called out that she is kind of a asshole but I don't think the writers noticed she is kind of a asshole. You could then at least have the lovable rogue going up against the sort of hard ass boss type that is inflexible but also with a sense of honor despite his or her gruff exterior. With what we see on screen you feel like you could have ended it with both characters learning a lesson from each other but then that would have gotten in the way of the deconstruction even if it would have been more satisfying in terms of character development.
Jason
It is the nature of mythology to progress in such a way.
We'll find out Snoke was a puppet for the emperor. Kylo was just fed a bogus story about Rey to keep a repeat of the Skywalkers banding against old Palps again. Either Luke or Leia is going to be her parent.
Please. No.
I didn't mind what they did with the last film. However, after Palpatine cackled his way back and JJ talks about there being more to the parent's story...
Neither specifically speak to the idea that Rey is Luke or Leia’s kid.
Eh, I'm not here to convince you or try. The franchise has pulled this before with Luke finding out Kenobi's first story was bullcrap. Then we got a hidden sister out of nowhere from the princess of Alderan. It would be in this filmmaking wheelhouse to have Rey be another hidden sister or cousin the Jedi cover their bets with one more time. They had the first trilogy about Anakin, the second about his kids, how far out would it be for the filmmakers to make this one all about the next generation?
Last edited:
Building on a story doesn’t suggest that Abrams will change the story. He set up the groundwork for Rey to be no one in TFA. Johnson ran with it. Yes, there is a precedence for changing stories in Star Wars. And I’ll be honest and suggest I absolutely do not want Rey to be Luke or Leia’s kid. I just don’t think it’s necessary.
You reference Palpatine. I believe it is more likely that Rey is much like Anakin in that she could have been an immaculate conception despite being raised early on with two parents. Could this mean that Palpatine was responsible? Maybe.
Or she is truly a nobody.
But the Skywalker saga ends here. I’d like to think Rey survives all of this. Her being Luke or Leia's daughter won’t really make that true.
But it’s all speculation. Well know in eight months!
You mean virgin birth?
immaculate conception ≠ virgin birth
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_birth_of_Jesus
Does anyone think we might also see the return of Darth Maul? We know he survived in "Solo" which is a movie I think they will mostly ignore from now on since it failed at the box office but I can still see them at least embracing the idea that Darth Maul is alive and since I don't know about the lifespan of that alien race he could be the means somehow of bringing Palpatine back to life.
Jason
Jason
Similar threads
