Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x13 - "Such Sweet Sorrow"

[Gonzo]

In my headcannon, Starfleet adapted a new ship classification system, during the TOS years. That led to the ship moving from "Starship Class" to the more specific "Constitution Class"



Agreed. I like Discovery and I like the 23rd Century setting. I think it's been fun getting some back story to TOS and exploring those characters and the era more deeply. It had so much less attention than the 24th century or even the 22nd century got.

I'm enjoying the ride, but I have mixed feelings about a change in setting.

They do need to be careful with all this time travel as it could really screw up the story lines moving forward.

Personally I do hope we keep at least one show in the 23rd century, ideally a Pike/Enterprise show, its an ideal time period as we dont know much about it.

The only other time periods that would be suitable would be after the Enterprise B launch shenanigans all the way up to the battle of Narendra 3 when the Enterprise C is destroyed.

Everything else is covered by books, films or TV shows.

Please for the love of god dont go backwards as I really dont care who does or does not have "faith of the heart".

As I said in a previous reply to @Tuskin38 I dont think they can avoid some kind of reset its just a matter of degrees, Burnham is going into the future to ensure that the AI never evolves which will stop it from coming back to the past and attacking the shuttle that Pike and Tyler were on, which would then mean Airiam is never compromised and neither is Control.

Its a causality loop, if the loop is broken then it will cause changes.

Remember in the official timeline there was never a war with the Klingons, in cases like this there is a fair chance that the Burnham we know could remove herself from existence, but more likely she will stay in the suit which shields her from the effects and change certain events such as her parents death and stopping the war with the Klingons before it ever had a chance to start, my guess is going back and stopping Leland and her own mother from stealing the time stone and messing with time in the first place.

 

[JoeZhang]

Remember in the official timeline there was never a war with the Klingons,.

Yeah they was - I saw it on Discovery, the official prime universe show currently being broadcast.

 

[Noname Given]

Read the whole thread so going to do my review now:
8/10
[Started with a 10 with the way it opened, the 1701 showing up, and that sweet 1701 Bridge set, but yeah other stuff detracted from that for me.]

LOVED:
- The 1701 (2019) Bridge set. Yep, for me they NAILED IT good.

- The 1701 Turbolift set (I can even forgive Pike not being told - "Hey, you STILL should HOLD the control handle..." )

- The 1701 Briefing Room set (Yes, the designers did rewatch a lot of TOS - "The Cage" it seems.)

LIKED:
- The job done to redress the Discovery corridor set to make them 1701 interior corridors. It was a much better job than they did for the Door to Spock's quarters in ST: D S2 - "Brothers".

- The majority of the various interpersonal stuff (which seemed to be the reason for this episode and probably why this season got an extra episode, so they could do some further secondary character stuff before the "Big Climax".

- The way they've ended up using the Time Crystals. In the end this all is in line with what we saw them able to do in ST: D S1 - "Magic To Make the Sanest Man Go Mad"; and they are sufficiently still mysterious and very dangerous to interact with (IMO they're much better used here then the various 'Plot Device Can Do Anytrhing Orbs' of the fan favorite series DS9.)

AMBIVILENT ABOUT:
- The Queen 'Po'. The Short Trek "Runaway" was my least favorite, plus for it to all work, Tilly had to beam her back across Interstellar Space (IE the Transporters have one hell of a range); and I say that because it seems cl;ear after the cargo pickup, Tilley never told anyone and Discovery didn't return to Po's home world to drop her off.

- 'Jet Reno'. have never warned to the character, and actually hope she does make some 'heroic sacrifice' next week so maybe I won't have to see the character in ST: D Season 3.

WTF:
- How is it that the Discovery can't call for help from/alert Starfleet; yet Sarek and Amanda's ship can physically travel to where Discovery is to give Michael a final goodbye/pep talk (No, I don't have an issue with the fact that Sarek was somehow telepathically aware as that ship has sailed and hell Spock had similar ability in TOS S2 - "The Imunity Syndrome"); yet Sarek DOESN'T DO ANYTHING TO ALERT VULCAN/THE FEDERATION/STARFLEET before going on the trip...PLUS they manage to warp away just in time...

DISLIKED:
- The writing staff writing that Sarek and Michael 'patch things up' (without Spock being there...and just mentioning that Sarek, "Will be there for Spock...at a distance per Spock's request..." <--- My point? Sarek's attitude here now doesn't make sense with his response 10 o so year in the future when he boards Kirk's 1701 and tell Kirk WRT to Spock giving him a tour that: "I would prefer another Guide..." (said with disdain).

- The convoluted situation the writers created after destroying the ability of the first Red Angel suit. The plane to put the data into the suit and then send the suit travelling forever forward in the timestream to keep Control from getting it at least made some logical sense as an ultimate and workable solution. making a new suit and just having Michael just take the suit and Discovery X amount of years anywhere in the future just seems like a delaying tactic (and something her mother already failed at with her what 900+ jumps herself ). So yeah, in the end, it just doesn't make sense beyond the writer's going: "Hey, we gotta end this somehow and set up Season 3..."

- Still dislike the "split in the middle and swept back" nacelle struts on the external CGI model of the 1701. One aspect or the other in that regard I could have accepted, but both elements together in TOO MUCH. And it's somewhat annoying as I really like the rest of the exterior model.

So yeah, in the end, it's an 8/10 from me.

And like others have mentioned: It does look like they're going to do a "Time Jump" and ST: D season 3 will take place somewhere in the 29th to 32nd century. <--- That does disappoint me as the 23rd century is my favorite Star trek era; and overall (for me) they have done a good job reviving that era for this show, and I've enjoyed the 23rd century setting - and they still have A LOT of 'buffer ears' (7-8 years or so) before TOS S1 - "Where No Man Has Gone Before".

So, yeah, I actually do hope they make an ultimate return to the 23rd century, and don't just abandon everything they've done in the 23rd century era from the Star Trek Discovery perspective - even if they do return to it with the 'Section 31' series.

Time will tell.

 

[Mr Awe]

Knock off the personal comments or you'll receive an infraction.

It was not a personal comment at all. I said nothing to put him down. I simply pointed out the discrepancy between his words and his actions.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with stating that the show seems to have gotten his dedicated attention and provoked an ongoing reaction from him despite his comments suggesting there isn't much to the show to warrant attention or reaction. That is a valid observation. Not a personal attack.

If the poster can't handle a critical look at his comments on a discussion board, I'd suggest he stop posting because that is what a discussion board is all about.

 

[BillJ]

Yeah they was - I saw it on Discovery, the official prime universe show currently being broadcast.

I do wonder how folks are going to react if Kurtzman and company press a massive reset button after going on for two years that the show was "Prime"?

 

[Yistaan]

In dialogue during the episode they mention that Control had disabled subspace relays. Essentially communications were disrupted across the UFP.

That makes it more jarring that no one ever mentions this again ever.

You would think Julian Bashir, instead of being like, "Section 31 what?" would be like "Yeah Sloan, I already heard about you guys, how Section 31 wiped out Federation communications in the 23rd century is mandatory history reading."

 

[Gonzo]

Yeah they was - I saw it on Discovery, the official prime universe show currently being broadcast.

Officially it was only minor skirmishes during this time period.

This is the problem with time travel, just think of all those extra ships that have been lost due to the war.

They can keep the war but only by rewriting what has already been referenced in other PU shows.

Just so you know I do not actually mind if its Prime Universe or not, or if the reset happens or not I am simply pointing out that they have backed themselves into a bit of a corner and I hope they have a way out of it.

 

[Kemaiku]

I do wonder how folks are going to react if Kurtzman and company press a massive reset button after going on for two years that the show was "Prime"?

Man, is Georgiou going to be red faced after calling it the Prime universe. Honestly, they can't even tell themselves, and they're in it!

 

[XCV330]

I do wonder how folks are going to react if Kurtzman and company press a massive reset button after going on for two years that the show was "Prime"?

Despite a yearning desire for that from a few people, i haven't seen any sign that they've ever been interested or leaning in that direction. CBS has more or less set its own banner on what Trek is going to look like and be from no won. They're outright using words like Prime Universe in dialogue now to prove the point (which is hamfisted but thats what happens when a show's been on so long that fans are writing it)

 

[Gonzo]

I do wonder how folks are going to react if Kurtzman and company press a massive reset button after going on for two years that the show was "Prime"?

It can still be Prime Universe but it will require either a reset to undo the war or a change to some dialogue in other Prime Universe shows.

No alternate universe or timeline is required.

 

[Quinton]

Yeah, I mean there is nothing here to have a major opinion one way or the other about. Yeah the Enterprise visuals are nice, but that's it. Those who graded this episode a 10, what are they going to grade the next one? Another 10? So how can you say you have an objective opinion if all episodes you grade end up a 10. You can't possibly have every single episode in ANY show be graded always the same.

Speaking for myself here, but I tend to rate most episodes a 7, 8, or a 9. Usually closer to a 7 or 8. I rated this one a 10 because I love it more than most of the rest.

 

[ITDUDE]

Speaking for myself here, but I tend to rate most episodes a 7, 8, or a 9. Usually closer to a 7 or 8. I rated this one a 10 because I love it more than most of the rest.

What will you rate the finale if it’s better than this one?

 

[XCV330]

Officially it was only minor skirmishes during this time period.

And where exactly was that, officially?

That makes it more jarring that no one ever mentions this again ever.

You would think Julian Bashir, instead of being like, "Section 31 what?" would be like "Yeah Sloan, I already heard about you guys, how Section 31 wiped out Federation communications in the 23rd century is mandatory history reading."

Why does no one ever mention V'ger in all of its night-sky blinding 82 AU glory, or Giant Whale Cylinder Thing that Nearly Killed Earth and Knocked out Innumerable spacecraft and stations, or Planet Killers, or the First Federation, or why the Mutara Nebula isn't around anymore because THAT'S where you'd planned to take the kids on vacation this year, or why French people don't sound French while Russian People Sound Polish, or the return of the bug things from Conspiracy.. etc

I don't know. Old shit doesn't make it into new scripts very often.

 

[BillJ]

Why does no one ever mention V'ger in all of its night-sky blinding 82 AU glory, or Giant Whale Cylinder Thing that Nearly Killed Earth and Knocked out Innumerable spacecraft and stations, or Planet Killers, or the First Federation, or why the Mutara Nebula isn't around anymore because THAT'S where you'd planned to take the kids on vacation this year, or why French people don't sound French while Russian People Sound Polish, or the return of the bug things from Conspiracy.. etc

Never read the novels?

 

[Quinton]

What will you rate the finale if it’s better than this one?

A 10. I don’t really let myself get caught up in that sort of thing. “I shouldn’t consider this episode a masterpiece because there may be a MASTERPIECIEST episode someday” just sounds like an unnecessarily tedious chore to ponder. Meaning no offense there.

 

[Kemaiku]

TNG does have more than one Mutara class nebula, named as such by Data. It lives on in it's sibling nebulae in the shows.

And those damned annoying ones in the games.

 

[XCV330]

Never read the novels?

I better get typing up that Mutara Nebula Holiday Package Tour novel

 

[Mr Awe]

They're jumping to the 28th century, about 300 years in the future of the Picard series. There's no cross over, that series already has it's own premise that doesn't sound like it's tying into DSC at all.

We don't know for sure to what time period they're jumping. They are setting up the idea that they're jumping to the 28th century, but I suspect that will be a last minute twist that they reveal at the very end of the season finale.

 

[ITDUDE]

A 10. I don’t really let myself get caught up in that sort of thing. “I shouldn’t consider this episode a masterpiece because there may be a MASTERPIECIEST episode someday” just sounds like an unnecessarily tedious chore to ponder. Meaning no offense there.

For me it’s easy. I know some episodes I graded myself as 10 and few as 0. Everything else is in between. If something is on par with an existing episode I graded a 10 a 9 or whatever, that’s the grade I give it. Out of all the Star Trek episodes of all time only a handful earn a 10, best of the best. Only a handful deserve a 0 or 1. Everything else is in between. Nothing from Discovery deserves a 1 or 10, imho, but most episodes end up bunched around 4 or 5.

 

[Kemaiku]

We don't know for sure to what time period they're jumping. They are setting up the idea that they're jumping to the 28th century, but I suspect that will be a last minute twist that they reveal at the very end of the season finale.

They give the figure of about 950 years post 2257, and mention the 28th century, several times.