Couldn't wheelchair Pike have had a Betazoid assistant

[David cgc]

There's something that someone said about the ramming scene in "The Last Jedi" that's stuck with me, and especially comes to mind with Pike's situation in light of Discovery; we don't live there. None of us are certified space pilots or lightspeed engineers from Star Wars, so we have no ideas what circumstances are required for what happened in the movie to happen, or all the reasons you may not want to do it, so let's trust that the space-admirals know more about how to be space-admirals than we do. Likewise, none of us are Star Trek doctors, nor have we examined Fleet Captain Pike. We can't diagnose him, or figure out what treatments work, so let's just trust that his doctors aren't incompetent, and there are good reasons why he's in the place he's in.

 

[Dukhat]

Which they have in common with 95% of Federation members seen in the franchise.

TNG seems to imply that Betazed joined the Federation relatively recently.

 

[Jayson1]

There's something that someone said about the ramming scene in "The Last Jedi" that's stuck with me, and especially comes to mind with Pike's situation in light of Discovery; we don't live there. None of us are certified space pilots or lightspeed engineers from Star Wars, so we have no ideas what circumstances are required for what happened in the movie to happen, or all the reasons you may not want to do it, so let's trust that the space-admirals know more about how to be space-admirals than we do. Likewise, none of us are Star Trek doctors, nor have we examined Fleet Captain Pike. We can't diagnose him, or figure out what treatments work, so let's just trust that his doctors aren't incompetent, and there are good reasons why he's in the place he's in.

Not true in all cases. I use to own the "Star Trek Technol Manuel" and I assure you I KNEW more than the writers. It was disturbing how many times they ignored the book for some silly drama or character development.

Jason

 

[Yistaan]

We know nothing of the kind.

We don't know when first contact took place between the Federation and Betazed - for all we know, it had not yet occurred as of Pike's accident.

We know that Harry Mudd robbed a bank on Betazed as of 2256/2257. So they had contact with him at least. And Tyler doesn't react as if this is a new planet when Mudd tells him of this.

 

[Lord Garth]

TNG seems to imply that Betazed joined the Federation relatively recently.

I strongly suspect you know more about TNG than I do. So where was that implied?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

We know that Harry Mudd robbed a bank on Betazed as of 2256/2257. So they had contact with him at least. And Tyler doesn't react as if this is a new planet when Mudd tells him of this.

Just because Harry had contact with Betazed doesn't mean the Federation did.

And Tyler's knowledge of it could be written off as Section 31 shenanigans.

 

[Dukhat]

I strongly suspect you know more about TNG than I do. So where was that implied?

Preproduction interviews with Marina Sirtis and other members of the TNG production staff mentioned Betazoids as being new to the Federation.

 

[DaveyNY]

https://trekmovie.com/2018/09/18/st...t-been-asked-to-be-part-of-new-picard-series/

Michael Dorn: I think that they have always kind of scratched the surface of the Klingons. And I really think that they should do something where…

Marina Sirtis: No, no. We know a lot about Klingons. We know nothing about Betazoids, but we know a lot about Klingons. Talk about scratching the surface. I know I had a mother, and that was it!

Well ... technically she knew from the start that she had a Dead Father, as well as finding out about a Dead Sister by the end of that series.

 

[Nerys Myk]

TNG seems to imply that Betazed joined the Federation relatively recently.

Implies how exactly? I don't recall anything that even hints at when it joined.

 

[Christopher]

Preproduction interviews with Marina Sirtis and other members of the TNG production staff mentioned Betazoids as being new to the Federation.

That doesn't count, because the TNG production staffers who were there at the start of the series were nearly all fired or quit by the end of season 1, and Roddenberry was marginalized from the production not long after, so there were a number of foundational assumptions that were quickly abandoned. For instance, Data was originally meant to have been built by aliens and to have the actual memories of the Omicron Theta colonists in his brain, rather than just their journals as in "Silicon Avatar." And Riker was supposed to be prejudiced against Data, an idea that was dropped after the pilot. And Geordi was supposed to be a liaison with the ship's children.

Behind-the-scenes plans are always subject to change, so only what's actually onscreen counts.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Preproduction interviews with Marina Sirtis and other members of the TNG production staff mentioned Betazoids as being new to the Federation.

Don't mean a thing if it didn't hit the screen.

 

[DaveyNY]

Don't mean a thing if it didn't hit the screen.

... do-wa
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[Yistaan]

Just because Harry had contact with Betazed doesn't mean the Federation did.

And Tyler's knowledge of it could be written off as Section 31 shenanigans.

Tyler wasn't Section 31 yet when he was in jail with Mudd. Unless it was Voq's memory leaking in or something.

 

[Dukhat]

Don't mean a thing if it didn't hit the screen.

Yeah, that's why I said "implied."

 

[Timo]

Errata:

- The episodes relating to Pike's fate never say his brain would have avoided damage. Instead, it is established that his mind is intact. So extreme aphasia is certainly a possibility, ruling out communication by voice box or Morse code and leaving ambiguous whether a telepath might sidestep the language block somehow.
- Then again, Star Trek has always indicated that language is no problem: two cultures alien to each other can start speaking in idiom and verse as soon as the hailing frequencies are open. Which really makes one wonder why the Universal Translator couldn't be taught to read eyebrows (not that Pike had any left!) or the words of the wind.
- What Star Trek does indicate is a problem is brain surgery: even Julian "Positronic Brain Prosthetics While You Wait" Bashir in the 24½th century cannot tackle the issue of a macroscopic device in Garak's midbrain. The idea of moving a person's brain from his or her body to another one thus shouldn't occur to our heroes in either TOS or DSC; the head in which Airiam's brain resides must be Airiam's own, despite possible appearances.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Jayson1]

Errata:

- The episodes relating to Pike's fate never say his brain would have avoided damage. Instead, it is established that his mind is intact. So extreme aphasia is certainly a possibility, ruling out communication by voice box or Morse code and leaving ambiguous whether a telepath might sidestep the language block somehow.
- Then again, Star Trek has always indicated that language is no problem: two cultures alien to each other can start speaking in idiom and verse as soon as the hailing frequencies are open. Which really makes one wonder why the Universal Translator couldn't be taught to read eyebrows (not that Pike had any left!) or the words of the wind.
- What Star Trek does indicate is a problem is brain surgery: even Julian "Positronic Brain Prosthetics While You Wait" Bashir in the 24½th century cannot tackle the issue of a macroscopic device in Garak's midbrain. The idea of moving a person's brain from his or her body to another one thus shouldn't occur to our heroes in either TOS or DSC; the head in which Airiam's brain resides must be Airiam's own, despite possible appearances.

Timo Saloniemi

What's interesting about the brain stuff being transplanted or being complicated to a point where people don't understand it that well seems to go against what happens when people use transporters. It takes the brain apart and puts it back together, along with everything else yet the person is still seen as still being who they are and not just a clone of the original person made out of the DNA of that original person.

Jason

 

[Timo]

What's the commonality between the two phenomena?

Moving the brain to a different location is possible if nothing changes - that is, if the whole person moves. Transporters as a rule don't change anything; in TOS, there were no cases of them manipulating the transportee in any fashion other than perhaps gently nudging his foot up if he were to land on rocky ground.

Moving the brain out of the head doesn't appear possible, or comparable. Certainly not in "Spock's Brain", say. And no, it's not a matter of philosophical objections: it's a matter of the surgeons not knowing how to do it.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[matthunter]

There's always the possibility that a Betazoid could be used, but Pike is in so much pain and torment that it would be highly unsettling or even damaging to the Betazoid involved.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Yeah, that's why I said "implied."

Yeah, that's why I said "implied."

To me implied ment something in a episode, not BTS stuff.

 

[zar]

Yeah, that's why I said "implied."

For TNG to imply that, at least some hint of those pre-production ideas would have had to find their way into scripts, but it never did. In fact, since it told us that Deanna's father was a Starfleet officer, it would imply that Betazed was already established several decades ago.

We know that Harry Mudd robbed a bank on Betazed as of 2256/2257. So they had contact with him at least. And Tyler doesn't react as if this is a new planet when Mudd tells him of this.

It doesn't seem realistic that every Federation citizen memorizes every planet that has been discovered over the last century or more. Hearing unfamiliar names should be a fact of life in universe, so we can't assume Tyler recognized it just because he didn't say "Betazed, where's that?" And we know Mudd himself isn't restricted to Federation knowledge and space. He got his time crystal somehow, bought a moon and in TOS goes on to claim an entire previously-unknown planet.


Basically, we still have no idea when the Federation became aware of Betazoids.