Spoilers A big hint about the finale/season 3 has dropped...

[fireproof78]

It is. And Fire didn't quote that part. It being artificially constructed and possibly spanning only some areas of space instead of being a naturally occurring phenomenon spanning entire multiverse would make it less dumb though. It being made out of literal fungi is still colossally dumb, no way around that.

No dumber than allowing aliens to crossbreed no matter what side of the galaxy they are from.

Also, my whole thing is that how is having a universe-spanning network of any kind not helpful in resolving things like omnipotent beings or are able to utilize instantaneously transportation across the galaxy. So, why not have some sort of dimensional plain that would allow for such abilities? What about the aliens we have seen evolve to a higher plane? What's the scientific basis for that?

It strikes me that the objections are far more around the terminology than any thing else.

 

[Longinus]

It strikes me that the objections are far more around the terminology than any thing else.

In certain sense you're correct. That's what I meant by it being literal fungus being stupid. Some sort of extradimensional plane is kinda weird, but I could accept that. Extradimensional plane of fungi is just just... it is not even woo, it is beyond woo.

 

[fireproof78]

In certain sense you're correct. That's what I meant by it being literal fungus being stupid. Some sort of extradimensional plane is kinda weird, but I could accept that. Extradimensional plane of fungi is just just... it is not even woo, it is beyond woo.

No more woo than thought being the basis of reality in other Trek. It's just Trek woo.

 

[BillJ]

Also, my whole thing is that how is having a universe-spanning network of any kind not helpful in resolving things like omnipotent beings...

Was anyone looking to have those resolved?

 

[fireproof78]

Was anyone looking to have those resolved?

I'm probably alone in this but omnipotent beings in Trek always bothered me. So, for me, yes.

 

[BillJ]

I'm probably alone in this but omnipotent beings in Trek always bothered me. So, for me, yes.

Mostly just more advanced beings. I never really gave them any thought beyond that. They serve the purpose they are needed for in Star Trek. Someone to look down on and challenge our heroes.

 

[fireproof78]

Mostly just more advanced beings. I never really gave them any thought beyond that. They serve the purpose they are needed for in Star Trek. Someone to look down on and challenge our heroes.

Not enough for me, especially when Trek is supposedly "scientific." That is a hand wave excuse that would be unacceptable in DSC. I don't accept it for other Trek as well.

 

[BillJ]

Not enough for me, especially when Trek is supposedly "scientific."

Not sure what is unscientific about beings who have lived in the galaxy longer than we have, being more advanced?

 

[fireproof78]

Not sure what is unscientific about beings who have lived in the galaxy longer than we have, being more advanced?

So, magic. That's all it comes down to. Clark's Law at its best.

Sorry, to me, this is the source of frustration. It is the fact that stuff that Star Trek got away with is no longer acceptable in present Trek. It is a poor, inconsistent standard to my mind, and reads as DSC doing everything wrong, despite claims that Trek is more scientific than other fictions of the time.

Now, to me, allowing another dimensional plane that connects multiple dimensions seems to be quite a simple answer to beings who are able to utilize with seemingly no help or artificial means. So, yes, I want these omnipotent beings explained more than "they're more advanced." For me, that is neither interesting nor satisfying.

YMMV, obviously.

 

[BillJ]

So, magic.

Not sure why evolution is magic?

Sorry, to me, this is the source of frustration. It is the fact that stuff that Star Trek got away with is no longer acceptable in present Trek. It is a poor, inconsistent standard to my mind, and reads as DSC doing everything wrong, despite claims that Trek is more scientific than other fictions of the time.

Not everything. Star Trek is transporters, and alien hybrids, and fantastical speeds. Those are the things that allow them to tell a universe spanning story. And I've been one that thinks the Spore Drive is a neat idea, it just doesn't fit within the original Star Trek's level of tech (neither does the Red Angel suit). The mycelium network can also be used to explain Iconian gateway technology if one really wanted to.

The only thing I've pointed to as being silly from a technology standpoint is the time crystals. And their forebears, Bajoran time orbs.

 

[Longinus]

So, magic. That's all it comes down to. Clark's Law at its best.

Sorry, to me, this is the source of frustration. It is the fact that stuff that Star Trek got away with is no longer acceptable in present Trek. It is a poor, inconsistent standard to my mind, and reads as DSC doing everything wrong, despite claims that Trek is more scientific than other fictions of the time.

That there are beings more advanced than humans, that can do things seemingly impossible to us is not in itself 'magic.' As I said somewhere in this thread, that I can do things than my dogs could never understand doesn't make me magical. However, if my dogs suddenly started to communicate over the globe with other canines, like I am now communicating with you, it might seem that something out of ordinary is happening. To me the spore drive and the red suit seem to be well beyond what is generally shown to be the technological capabilities of pretty much any non-god tier species in Star Trek, and thus these things feel out of place.

 

[fireproof78]

Not sure why evolution is magic?

With all due respect to my scientific bretheren, I find evolution a hard pill to swallow regarding omnipotent power and instantaneous transportation.

Not everything. Star Trek is transporters, and alien hybrids, and fantastical speeds. Those are the things that allow them to tell a universe spanning story. And I've been one that thinks the Spore Drive is a neat idea, it just doesn't fit within the original Star Trek's level of tech (neither does the Red Angel suit). The mycelium network can also be used to explain Iconian gateway technology if one really wanted to.

The only thing I've pointed to as being silly from a technology standpoint is the time crystals. And their forebears, Bajoran time orbs.

I will try to be as respectful as I can in stating this. If the Bajoran Orbs are the silliest thing then I will continue to struggle with why DSC doesn't fit with the rest of Trek tech.

That there are beings more advanced than humans, that can do things seemingly impossible to us is not in itself 'magic.' As I said somewhere in this thread, that I can do things than my dogs could never understand doesn't make me magical. However, if my dogs suddenly started to communicate over the globe with other canines, like I am now communicating with you, it might seem that something out of ordinary is happening. To me the spore drive and the red suit seem to be well beyond what is generally shown to be the technological capabilities of pretty much any non-god tier species in Star Trek, and thus these things feel out of place.

The fact that there is a "god tier" of beings in supposed scientific Trek pretty much makes shrug and give up at any objections to the mycelial network. I truly don't know why god beings are acceptable...

 

[urbandefault]

Trek fans crack me up.

 

[Longinus]

The fact that there is a "god tier" of beings in supposed scientific Trek pretty much makes shrug and give up at any objections to the mycelial network. I truly don't know why god beings are acceptable...

Why? Why it is implausible that advanced aliens would posses capabilities that seem god-like to us? That is something that those beings, or their ancestors, have probably intentionally striven for aeons. It is most likely a combination of evolution, technological and scientific development and self-enhancement. It didn't happen by accident.

Mycelial network on the other hand is represented as naturally occurring phenomenon. It is quite different.

 

[TrickyDickie]

The only thing I've pointed to as being silly from a technology standpoint is the time crystals. And their forebears, Bajoran time orbs.

There's always a crystal lurking around somewhere....

 

[fireproof78]

Why? Why it is implausible that advanced aliens would posses capabilities that seem god-like to us? That is something that those beings, or their ancestors, have probably intentionally striven for aeons. It is most likely a combination of evolution, technological and scientific development and self-enhancement. It didn't happen by accident.

Mycelial network on the other hand is represented as naturally occurring phenomenon. It is quite different.

There is "god-like" and then there is omnipotent. One strikes me as plausible; the other does not.

At least, not any more or less plausible than a mycelial network.

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

There's always a crystal lurking around somewhere....

PICARD: This one's canon!​

-MMoM

 

[Longinus]

There is "god-like" and then there is omnipotent. One strikes me as plausible; the other does not.

At least, not any more or less plausible than a mycelial network.

There are no omnipotent beings in Trek. Q is the most powerful being we've seen, and even he isn't omnipotent. It is just that from human perspective the limits of his powers are hard to perceive, but it has still been established that such certainly exist.

 

[TrickyDickie]

-MMoM

Picard: "If I were a glass ceiling, this would be a shard of Picard."

 

[fireproof78]

There are no omnipotent beings in Trek. Q is the most powerful being we've seen, and even he isn't omnipotent. It is just that from human perspective the limits of his powers are hard to perceive, but it has still been established that such certainly exist.

Then Q is a liar.