What We Left Behind - Documentary Update Confirms *Some* HD Remastering

[USS Firefly]

Seems to me even just one key episode of DS9 streaming in 4K or HD (perhaps on CBS All Access where current key demographics are going for Trek) would add more interest in a theatrical release of the documentary, which would add more interest in a full series remaster. I bet since they're already in the vaults, the documentary team could remaster one episode with help from their friends David Frank and Christian Lerch (

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). Hey, I'm a dreamer, what can I say.

That looks great!

 

[Tomalak]

This guy was feeding clips into a machine-learning AI in an attempt to see if it was a feasible way to upscale DS9 on a budget. I can barely tell the difference, even on his "4K" attempt, but its certainly an option for a "cheap" HD release.
https://captrobau.blogspot.com/2019/03/remastering-star-trek-deep-space-nine.html

But like you say, it's imperceptible, and in some cases looks worse. Who would pay good money for that?

Strengthens the argument that the only way to do it is to do it properly, as we all knew anyway.

 

[Jedman67]

But like you say, it's imperceptible, and in some cases looks worse. Who would pay good money for that?

Strengthens the argument that the only way to do it is to do it properly, as we all knew anyway.

The argument he is making is that a studio has the resources - and original footage - to use AI-assisted up-scaling to make an HD (lite) release of DS9 substantially improved over current SD DVD's at a fraction of the cost of a full-on top to bottom remaster like TNG-R.

 

[Tomalak]

And if the results were less unconvincing, that argument might have some merit. AI upscaling is clearly not there yet, so it would be a total waste of money that would make a proper remaster even less likely.

 

[dub]

When it comes to shows and films that are in the category of scifi or contain significant action/visuals, does ANY studio who actually has access to the raw assets do a cheap digital upres and spit it out in/on a higher resolution format? Asking as an admittedly ignorant person on this subject. Doesn't seem to make sense from a PR perspective at the very least, even though some people would buy it up anyway.

 

[tomswift2002]

The argument he is making is that a studio has the resources - and original footage - to use AI-assisted up-scaling to make an HD (lite) release of DS9 substantially improved over current SD DVD's at a fraction of the cost of a full-on top to bottom remaster like TNG-R.

If you think back to TNG-R, CBS already tried a bunch of upscaling options with the TNG tapes, and they were not satisfied with the upscaling options for upscaling NTSC Composite Video (And they even showed a few scenes on the bonuses on “The Next Level” or maybe the Season 1 Blu-Ray).

But if you want an idea as to what DS9 would look like upconverted from its current D2 Composite masters, just look to TNG’s Season 5’s “Power Play” And “The First Duty” where 3 minutes of footage was up converted to HD from D2 videotape.

 

[Jedman67]

If you think back to TNG-R, CBS already tried a bunch of upscaling options with the TNG tapes, and they were not satisfied with the upscaling options for upscaling NTSC Composite Video (And they even showed a few scenes on the bonuses on “The Next Level” or maybe the Season 1 Blu-Ray).

But if you want an idea as to what DS9 would look like upconverted from its current D2 Composite masters, just look to TNG’s Season 5’s “Power Play” And “The First Duty” where 3 minutes of footage was up converted to HD from D2 videotape.

TNG-R was started close to ten years ago; machine learning and AI refinement have come a long way since. I've seen samples of fan-upscaled B5 frames that looked fantastic.
All I'm saying is the proof of concept shows that it's worth investigating; not that it's necessarily going to be worth doing.

 

[tomswift2002]

TNG-R was started close to ten years ago; machine learning and AI refinement have come a long way since. I've seen samples of fan-upscaled B5 frames that looked fantastic.
All I'm saying is the proof of concept shows that it's worth investigating; not that it's necessarily going to be worth doing.

Even with the “improvements” that have come out since 2011, you are still dealing with digital NTSC Composite video, whereas, by comparison, Babylon 5 was edited on NTSC & PAL Digital Betacam, which recorded Component video (and is a different league). Suffice it to say, but any upscaling for the current DS9 masters is just going to be “lipstick on a pig” as it’s going to have trouble with figuring out, especially the small detail, what is detail and what is Composite noise. Plus it wouldn’t be able to clean up any rainbow noise, such as grills (think of Picard from the end of AGT sitting in the courtroom with the light shining through the floor grate, there was a ton of rainbowing present, even on the DVD, due to the loss of detail from the Composite signal) or anything with stripes and small spaces.

 

[Reyman]

I've been very curious and hopeful about this AI upscaling tech, so I went to a samsung demonstration of it. It is a wonderful thing and it brings a new wow factor to 1080 HD video.

However it does very little to improve 480 video which was pretty disappointing. Granted this is just one version of AI upscaling, but I'm not hopeful that shows like DS9 and BB5 will look much better using just AI upscaling

 

[TheSeeker]

Just a heads-up for everyone that I merged another documentary thread into the pinned thread, so some of the more recent posts may seem a bit out of context.

 

[Discofan]

I love it when things get complicated!

 

[TheSeeker]

Looks like there's going to be a theatrical release on May 13th. Link

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Damn, you beat me to it by mere seconds!

Also, the running time appears to be 2 hours and 10 minutes. Pretty good length, I would say.

 

[DonIago]

As someone who saw the NYC premiere, I'll certainly be curious to see how the actual release differs from my recollections.

Heck, it might be kind of nifty if the Blu ray included both versions, though I imagine the differences may be fairly minimal.

 

[saladdays]

It looks like you can't buy tickets for it until April 12, according to Fathom's website.

 

[Jayson1]

You know with that run time you could fit in 3 whole episodes. Hope everyone will be excited and surprised to see "Way of the Warrior" plus "Pale Moonlight" in HD and up on the big screen. The documentary will actually be a extra on the bonus disk!

Jason

 

[AutoAdmin]

A new news article has been published at TrekToday:

A new update on the Deep Space Nine documentary What We Left Behind will be of interest to those who backed the...

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[The Nth Doctor]

Finally got around to my email and discovered an Indiegogo campaign email from this afternoon:

Backers will get to stream the film starting April 25, at 9:09pm EST for 99 hours!

 

[Tomalak]

That's a bit annoying - why the time limit? I'll be in the US during that week, so I'll have to watch it on my phone.

Unless I can find a theatrical showing to attend.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

From the email:

The idea behind this reward was to give backers a sneak peak at the movie before the general public could see it in theaters, hence the limited time window. Of course, you’ll still have many more chances to watch it at your leisure when your DVD/Blu-ray combo set ships (stay tuned for details on that AFTER our theatrical release!)
​

Also, why do you have to watch it on your phone? Can't you watch it on your computer?