Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x09 - "Project Daedalus"

[Campe]

I did like it, and it is still a plot hole.

I’ll agree. But perhaps while an explanation was written as to why the transporters were down, it was cut for whatever reason. It would not be the first time a movie/TV show did this.

And for me, I’d rather have drama over needing to dot every eye and cross every t. But that’s just me.

 

[Vger23]

I didn't even notice the transporter plot hole as I was watching. In hindsight, a single line of dialogue could have fixed it, but I presumed

1. Airiam was far too dangerous to bring back to the Discovery
2. The high-security nature of S31 and the presence of Control was preventing a beam-out from that location.

 

[saddestmoon]

Gave this ep a 9!

Was quite a gripping Episode I thought - and great to get some further Airiam character development, right before she died. Also great to see her friend group, and interactions with other close crew members.

Liking Peck’s Spock the more we see of him!

Intrigued by project Daedalus and what it actually entails...

Overall: Looking very forward to next weeks ep!

 

[137th Gebirg]

I didn't even notice the transporter plot hole as I was watching. In hindsight, a single line of dialogue could have fixed it, but I presumed

1. Airiam was far too dangerous to bring back to the Discovery
2. The high-security nature of S31 and the presence of Control was preventing a beam-out from that location.

I think your option #2 is most likely, although #1 is pretty reasonable too. They were at the central core of Control’s systems. S31 likely heavily shielded that area (like, with neutronium) to make transport impossible. That’s why I wasn’t nearly as bothered by that nonexistent plot hole as others appear to be.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Nhan should have closed her helmet to save herself it could have created a Barzan atmosphere

 

[cgervasi]

Then again, they could target [Airiam for transport] once was ejected from the station just as they saved Tyler (another double agent...) last season. OK, I can get she was dangerous, but this seemed like the case of sci-fi show that always comes with convoluted means to overcome the problem suddenly not having them becouse "that would not be realistic".

Maybe the Section 31 facility had a beaming shield and it extended beyond the outer haul. There's reason to imagine it would have such protection, like Rura Penthe, the Tantus Colony, and Elba II. In all those cases, the beaming shield extended some distance beyond the physical wall.

 

[gblews]

No, I'm saying that spending more time with her would have given her death far more impact.

There is really nothing to indicate that Arian would ever have been given anymore screen time than she had been given, no matter how many seasons the show ran. So it is likely that any storyline that included her death would still have been handled in the way we saw it handled.

But this is where we disagree; I thought the scenes preceding, and following her death, were so well handled, I didn’t need any “more” of Ariam in order to feel for her and the other characters as they watched her die.

I think we sometimes have automatic responses to certain tropes like recurring or regular character death. That death MUST be preceded by a certain amount of screen time for the character or else there won’t be reason to feel for the character after death.

Critics say this stuff all the time. But it’s not always true. The “A “ story involved more S31 intrigue but the essence of the episode was Ariam and her fate. It wasn’t just her memories of her friends that drew us into her in this episode, it was also the way the crew interacted with Ariam in real time that built, in just a few screen minutes, what had not been built in all previous episodes.

In the aftermath of her death we see the camera dutifully focus on all who were on the bridge showing the shock and grief. This scene was book-ended by Burnham’s mask of horror made worse no doubt, by the knowledge that her friend died by her hand. As much as Frakes has gotten on my nerves over the years, he does know how to direct a Trek episode.

I’m sorry but the more times I watch the episode, the more convinced I am that this was one of the better deaths in a Trek show. Tripp, Tasha, and Data, should have had it so good.

But a serialized show really shouldn’t need to establish mundane details such as "she's close friends with Tilly!" at the last second, especially halfway through the second season..

Because Ariam wasn’t a regular character. She was recurring. Because there are only 13 to 15 episodes. Screen time is overrated. As much of Tripp, Tasha, and Data as we’d seen, their deaths weren’t nearly as poignant and meaningful as Arianm’s, IMO.

 

[cooleddie74]

Pike made a judgment call. Over 100 years earlier the NX-01 could use 22nd century transporter technology to retrieve Archer from the vacuum of space outside Cold Station 12 and save him before he died and Pike and the Discovery could likely have saved Airiam with a transporter lock after she was ejected into space, but he made the judgment call to sacrifice her. It doesn't have to make perfect sense - and it doesn't when you analyze it - but it brought the episode to a startling and sad climax that capped a very good story.

And at the end of the day some of our favorite Trek episodes and films have glaring loopholes in logic that have to exist for them to be as good or even great as they are in our eyes. Honestly, trying to find a Star Trek episode or movie that doesn't have huge plot holes is an almost pointless effort. By its nature Trek is fantastic adventure with the bending of logic to make the action and the drama work for audiences, and as long as it can do so without becoming completely implausible and distractingly absurd then I can probably live with it.

 

[DaveyNY]

If They spend the first minute and a half of the next episode explaining why they couldn't save her...
Peoples will still bee-otch.


I hate the way many folks condemn each and every episode now-a-days.

Use to be we just enjoyed them all and glossed over the errors.
Spending the next several months logically explaining how it was this way or that.

Now folks are so honed in on the slightest little thing.

Sometimes I hate fandom.

 

[Rhodan]

If They spend the first minute and a half of the next episode explaining why they couldn't save her...
Peoples will still bee-otch.

No, I wouldn´t.

 

[cooleddie74]

Made love to her until her head exploded?

I loved college.

 

[DaveyNY]

No, I wouldn´t.

Well then, yer not one of those Peoples.
'

 

[F. King Daniel]

Transporters can solve lots of problems...this just was another one added to the list of times it was forgotten.

Didn't they say the station was shielded except for the section they beamed into?

 

[Paul Weaver]

The transporter was an obvious "it wouldn't work in that location" explanation (hence they beamed in elsewhere)

What concerned me more was Burnham's complete disregard for Nhan. After she defeated Airiam and pushed her into the airlock, you'd think the first thing she'd do would be check on Nhan, rather than stand that talking to Pike.

Project Daedalus could well be linked with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Daedalus -- automation, robot probles. Add in the Freitas option of self replication and it seems to fit.

 

[Turtletrekker]

What concerned me more was Tilly's complete disregard for Nhan. After she defeated Airiam and pushed her into the airlock, you'd think the first thing she'd do would be check on Nhan, rather than stand that talking to Pike.

I think you mean Burnham. Tilly wasn't even there.

 

[Paul Weaver]

I think you mean Burnham. Tilly wasn't even there.

Quite -- haven't had my morning coffee yet

 

[Alan Roi]

The transporter was an obvious "it wouldn't work in that location" explanation (hence they beamed in elsewhere)

What concerned me more was Burnham's complete disregard for Nhan. After she defeated Airiam and pushed her into the airlock, you'd think the first thing she'd do would be check on Nhan, rather than stand that talking to Pike.

Project Daedalus could well be linked with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Daedalus -- automation, robot probles. Add in the Freitas option of self replication and it seems to fit.

I'm wondering if anyone would be bothered if it had been Worf who had been knocked 50 ft and then ignored for the rest of the scene.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

Quite -- haven't had my morning coffee yet

Nhan still had one breathing thingie. Also, time was kinda in short supply. She blacked out a bit, but if Airiam had got out, she, Burnham and everyone else would have died.

 

[Cyfa]

I thought this was one of the most gripping and tense Star Trek episodes I've ever seen. And the last ten minutes or so - especially Airiam desperately pleading with Burnham to space her - turned me into an emotional wreck. Excellent writing, acting, directing, and subversion of tropes, as far as I'm concerned. This got a 9 from me (would have been a 10 but for the somewhat ponderous manoeuvring through the (ridiculous) minefield (although great use of equally ridiculous evasive manoeuvres ), and the weird slow-mo then normal time fight scene between Airiam and Burnham (specifically, I didn't care for the Crouching Tiger...style jump by Airiam).
And would it have killed someone to have Hannah Cheesman billed as a guest star rather than her usual co-star status? She was brilliant!

Nitpick time. Something I noticed on my second viewing is that on the bridge, when Tilly notices all of Airiam's downloads, her display screens show incorrect ranks for some of the crew: Airiam is listed as Cmdr, Bryce as Lt, and Detmer as Lt. Cmdr...

 

[thribs]

Those Manoeuvers weren’t really exciting. It was just a loop.