Voyager premiered before both Xena and Buffy.
Captain Marvel (2019)
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Voyager premiered before both Xena and Buffy.
Urgh, for some reason I was counting the Buffy movie (which off the top of my head, was...93?) Probably because I’m one of the five or so people in the world that actually saw it first.
And fine, sub Xena with Babylon 5, The X-Files or ER. Xena was VOY’s contemporary, not its predecessor. Not that it does much to change the charge that VOY was two steps behind the rest of tv on the ladies front.
(And no, im not talking about ‘Xena likes to punch stuff’ and ‘has a sweeps lesbian kiss.’)
And fine, sub Xena with Babylon 5, The X-Files or ER. Xena was VOY’s contemporary, not its predecessor. Not that it does much to change the charge that VOY was two steps behind the rest of tv on the ladies front.
(And no, im not talking about ‘Xena likes to punch stuff’ and ‘has a sweeps lesbian kiss.’)
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And no one cared.
Nothing like facts getting in the way of misinformation - thanks for getting it right
Hercules S01e09. Warrior Princess. March 1995.
Voyager S01e01 January 1995
Buffy movie. July 31, 1992
Voyager S01e01 January 1995
Buffy movie. July 31, 1992
Honestly, working out that ER, Twin Peaks, My So-Called Life, and X-Files are older than VOY, is kinda blowing my mind. Part of it may be that I watched VOY as a kid and the rest when I was older, but I’d always assumed those shows were from much later in the decade.
Even Friends and early Simpsons (and yes, I know they have their own problems) still seem less dated.
Edit: Jesus, Prime Suspect premiered in 1991. Jane had slowly kicked her way through the glass ceiling to become Detective Superintendant, and had one of tv’s more realistic abortions, by the time Janeway came around.
(What I’m saying is that original flavour Prime Suspect is Good, and more Americans should watch it.)
Even Friends and early Simpsons (and yes, I know they have their own problems) still seem less dated.
Edit: Jesus, Prime Suspect premiered in 1991. Jane had slowly kicked her way through the glass ceiling to become Detective Superintendant, and had one of tv’s more realistic abortions, by the time Janeway came around.
(What I’m saying is that original flavour Prime Suspect is Good, and more Americans should watch it.)
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Maybe it is no longer available, but at one time I believe it was on Netflix, Amazon, or Hulu.
It's a British show, which is why Prime Suspect was not part of your local programming Jayson.
I watched it but years later, maybe on HBO? Can't remember.
Voyager certainly wasn't particularly progressive, but I do think you're underselling Janeway a bit here. It's easy to look back and dismiss it as a very tiny step, but it was an important step nonetheless. Women leads just weren't that common at the time, and especially in "serious" sci-fi, which was lagging behind the rest of pop culture and was still very much boys' territory. If nothing else it normalized a woman being in charge for a bunch of geeks at the time.
"Voyager" I think was pretty progressive for that era. The show had 3 female regulars which was a first for Trek except for TNG in season 1 when they never really replaced Yar. It created maybe one of Trek's better female villians in Seska. You had a black Vulcan for the first time. Plus lets not forget something and that Janeway was not sexy in the way Xenia and Buffy and Scully etc where. She was a middle aged woman. Not exactly the type of character you think is going to be aimed at horny teenage boys. Plus one of the shows creators was Jeri Taylor which was the first time a woman was offically acknowledged as Trek show creator. There is some unknown stuff about Dorthy Fontana and the creation of TNG I am not sure has ever been sorted out.
Jason
Jason
I found and find Janeway the most authentic of the leads. Her look, presence and believability. Like if she got into a physical fight she would bruise, she would have an (albeit temporary) scar, she would be as strong as her physicality as a human being allowed. I adored Xena, she's cool and tough and sexy but when she fights it's full on special effects. Don't get me started on short-arsed Buffy kicking butt... what a joke. Sure it's fantasy but hardly progressive when it's that fake.
I didn’t dismiss it as a tiny step.
I dismissed it as Trek getting dragged in the wake of other properties having long stepped up and done all the progress for them.
Just like they did with gay characters. And POC leads. And rather than getting geeks ‘used’ to strong women, it’s apparently conditioned them to permanently claim something that was fairly regressive is the modern gold standard for writing female characters. Yay.
And note: Marvel were a bunch of cowards too. But unfortunately, Captain Marvel and BP were still breakthroughs. Because people are stupid, ‘Catwoman and Spawn bombed,’ and the system sucks.
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They made a prequel recently.
It's called prime Suspect 1973 in Britain but alternatively it's called Prime Suspect Tennison in America. Weird. Maybe they think that Americans are so racist towards developing nations, that they might not notice that the story is set in the past?
There was an American remake with the exact same name, that aired for around five seconds. Maybe they need/want to indicate the separation between them.
Also, lol’ing at Prime Suspect being ‘violent.’ The crew of Voyager (and honestly, the Trek universe at large) wishes they had the gory death rate of the crim proc. show. None of Jane’s lieutenants ever had to worry about their faces getting flayed off and worn as surprisingly well-realised flesh masks. Harry Kim deaths alone probably matches Prime Suspects decade-long death tally.
Also, if memory serves, it was based on the novel Tennison
(I remember watching the US version a couple of years back)
I don’t remember one with that name, but youre probably right. I used to just grab what the library had.
If only Lynda La Plante wasn’t so dated and irrelevant now. Then I could load em all up on my kindle, give them a read through, and catch up on what I missed. Alas, she hasn’t produced fantastic female-lead work since...6 months ago. Her stuff totally holds no appeal anymore, and is of no interest to anyone.
(Give me ‘She’s Out’ with the same cast and crew, Hollywood. Or I will riot.)
If only Lynda La Plante wasn’t so dated and irrelevant now. Then I could load em all up on my kindle, give them a read through, and catch up on what I missed. Alas, she hasn’t produced fantastic female-lead work since...6 months ago. Her stuff totally holds no appeal anymore, and is of no interest to anyone.
(Give me ‘She’s Out’ with the same cast and crew, Hollywood. Or I will riot.)
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