That's true, considering the first two episodes of the series took place on the Shenzhou. I think they could have some episodes not take place on Discovery, but I don't think it would be the main setting of the whole season.
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x09 - "Project Daedalus"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
That's true, considering the first two episodes of the series took place on the Shenzhou. I think they could have some episodes not take place on Discovery, but I don't think it would be the main setting of the whole season.
Saying your joke sucked is not being offended, sparky.
Nobody is telling you to like her. Disliking a character is fine. What grates people's nerves (including mine) is you insisting on lobbing that ridiculous term at her that, by your own description above, doesn't hold any water. Maybe you didn't know this (and I'm not being sarcastic or anything), but a Mary Sue (and man, do I hate this term) has to:
Have no character flaws. Burnham has them. She gets called out on them. She suffers consequences because of them.
Never be seriously criticised by other "good" characters. Spock calls her out. Harshly. Others have done so, as well.
Never face consequences. Boy, does she face consequences. So do those around her.
Never make serious mistakes. She fucks up during her first episode and makes some pretty bad mistakes over the course of the seasons.
Never suffer humiliation. She does on Vulcan. Spock sniping at her in front of Cornwell or Stamets counts, too.
Never have to work hard to acquire skills. She spent about the same amount of time studying as everyone else.
Be more skilled than others for no reason. Nope. Moving on.
Warp those around her out of character. Doesn't. If anything, it took folks a good long while to get used to her. People don't treat her better than others, don't cut her more slack, don't ignore others to pay attention to her.
Be at the centre of everything, all the time, and have the universe bend backwards to accomodate her. Also not true. All of the focus characters have, at some point, used their skills to save the day.
Have almost everyone attracted to her, wanting to befriend her, wanting to adopt her. She got adopted by Amanda and Sarek, but other than that, she doesn't get any more attention that way than others.
There you go. Use this rough guideline.Maybe do the litmus test. Maybe don't. Keep on disliking her all you want, but please, if you want people off your back, quit it with that frankly ridiculous Mary Sue accusation. It's inaccurate and just causes the impression that you, like so many others, are using a meaningless insult to disparage a competent female character. If that is not your intention, just stay away from that term. Problem solved. Thank you.
Moving on.
I was about to suggest that there were different versions of the credits but maybe whatever sound they were using was too subtle for some speakers.
Ok mary sue to me just means Dull and boring. So we both have different definitions of it.
And to be honest if you find a fictional term for a fictional character annoying and grating? That (no offense) is pretty pedantic and sad as there are bigger/ more important things in the world to get annoyed about.
Except we are in a Star Trek BBS where it's pretty much a given, that it's the most "important/biggest" thing to talk about.
Calling people "pretty pedantic and sad" in a place where the specific topic IS being talked about, is kinda/sorta insulting, even when "no offense" is intended.
True.
But I don't get annoyed or insulted just because someone has a different opinion to me or criticizes a character I like.
I just laugh it off.
I love Trek and Discovery, but it is just a show.
I'm not sure it was your opinion that was the problem, more in the way you originally posted that became the highlight.
Actually, I do get offended at people calling me names after I politely engage them in conversation. Don't do it again.
I'm going to take a page out of your book and start randomly defining words the way I see fit: tomato now means that thing you use to make the dark go bright. Intelligent means not understanding all them hard words. See? We all can do it!
Words have meanings, is what I'm trying to say.
Also, I've come to the conclusion that talking to you doesn't really do it for me. You haven't once shown any willingness to concede a point or admit a mistake. Have a good day. I'm done here. Bye.
I feel like there's been a slight overreaction to a post which was clearly responding to @BillJ's hopes that the good run continues with a mash-up of the worst of Trek. Not hilarious, but not offensive.
However, I am as sick of this "Boreham" and "Mary Sue" stuff. It was tedious (and wrong) last season, and even moreso now. Especially when Spock has called out Michael's repeated fuck ups, as did Georgiou last season.
She and Spock are both victims of Sarek's dreadful parenting. He's a Worf-level bad father. All his kids ended up defying and resenting him, except for the human one, who is desperate to live up to his expectations whilst balancing logic and emotion. At least she wasn't actively told showing emotion was to be discouraged. I hope there's more delving into this before the end of the season.
However, I am as sick of this "Boreham" and "Mary Sue" stuff. It was tedious (and wrong) last season, and even moreso now. Especially when Spock has called out Michael's repeated fuck ups, as did Georgiou last season.
She and Spock are both victims of Sarek's dreadful parenting. He's a Worf-level bad father. All his kids ended up defying and resenting him, except for the human one, who is desperate to live up to his expectations whilst balancing logic and emotion. At least she wasn't actively told showing emotion was to be discouraged. I hope there's more delving into this before the end of the season.
What about that guy in the background with a kind of insectoid compound head? He's basically the new deep background alien that Airiam was last season. Does he have a name yet?
meh! I prefer linus! classic aliens >>>>>>>> new aliens
I don't know how many of you watch The Expanse, but there's a similar dynamic with a villainous character and his two daughters: one becomes defiant, the other obsessed about living up to dad's impossible standards. That kind of dysfunctional family depiction is something I personally find very compelling, as it makes for really good characterisation. One of the reasons I liked this new episode so much was how organic the conflict between Spock and Michael felt. They are both caught up in their decades-long resentment and unwilling to cede any ground. I think that at some point, they'll grow past this at least somewhat, but it's good to see a conflict that feels real and not like forced melodrama. At least that's how I see it.
Gave it an 8. Maybe "Control" is the reason the Federation/Starfleet had to downgrade their tech around Kirk's time. BSG comes to mind. Sad to see Airiam go. Like others have said, secondary characters should be further developed before being killed off. Hope this ties in with the Calypso story.
