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Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x09 - "Project Daedalus"

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Was it really trying to actually destroy Discovery though.

No. I agree, the mines were simply a delaying action set up by Ariam until she could download all the Sphere data into her memory. Once the download was complete, the mines immediately stood down and Control contacted discovery. They were never in any real danger. You're right in that Control can't have made it look that easy to get through, and it worked. Everyone was fooled.
 
Spock
This was probably my main problem with this episode - they didn't capture the character of Spock. At all.

I couldn't agree more, I also thought "Sherlock" when watching him this episode. It's a pity because in theory, I like a lot of the stuff separately (the learning disability, drawing skill, Peck's acting) but not when put together. He just felt like another "troubled boy genius" character which is a complete mischaracterization imho
 
It would interesting to see both actually start to help each other since both are to spot such behaviors in each other. Instead of criticizing, it becomes something constructive and maybe rebuilding some sort of relationship.
If Spock ultimately couldn't even really rebuild his relationship with Sarek (his biological father) after 100+ years (see TNG S5 "Unification II"); I doubt we'll see the Spock/Burnham relationship repaired. Yeah, they'll work together to save the Universe here as needed; but it'll be like the worst aspects of the future Spock/McCoy relationship on steroids. (IMO) ;)
 
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Based on tonight's episode it seems like Section 31 (at least their AI) will be the bad guys in the Red Angel arc. It may explain why they go underground. And if that happens then section 31 will be more like the DS9 version on the new S31 series with Georgiou.
From what I can see Control is the enemy right now as shown by its murder of the Admirals, all of the Federation/Starfleet rely on Control as we are told by Cornwell not just S31.

It will probably be the trigger for changes to S31 but it doesn't make them the enemy yet but that could possibly change.

How Leland and the other S31 crews react to the information will be a big indicator.
 
Airiam [...] this episode served a great deal to humanize her
Literally. She was such a vacuum before this episode that we didn't even know if she was human. A background make-up job for the whole show, and then finally a person just in time to die.
 
I couldn't agree more, I also thought "Sherlock" when watching him this episode. It's a pity because in theory, I like a lot of the stuff separately (the learning disability, drawing skill, Peck's acting) but not when put together. He just felt like another "troubled boy genius" character which is a complete mischaracterization imho
He's not yet the Spock we know from TOS. (which I think is a good thing)
They've got several years to develop him into that character.
It's more of an earlier rendition, than a mischaracterization.
Be rather silly to have him just become Nimoy's version overnight.
(that's kinda-sorta the point of going back multiple years to show the characters development)
 
I really never would have predicted Control was going to be a major plot point. In fact, last week when everyone was chattering about it, I was rolling my eyes and thinking how unimportant it all was compared to the story we'd seen.


Wrong again, Vger23. Wrong again.
It did look like it was going that way, especially after seeing the red lights in the last two or three weeks of episodes.
 
Control attacking all sentient life doesn’t make much sense as it was designed to protect Earth (and the Federation by extension) from all dangers. For it to then see that all biological life as a danger sounds too Skynet to me.
The Federation (in the future) seems to have a habit of letting their AIs get out of control (yes, I know, but no pun intended here ;)). In the next 11 years we'll see the M5 incident on the 1701 Enterprise where one rogue AI designed to protect men, goes off and destroys another Federation starship (the U.S.S. Excalibur) and kills about 500 crew (430 on the Excalibur and 70 or so more across another 3 Starships.)
^^^
It probably explains why there AREN'T more self autonomous androids or Cyberneticly enhanced humans in the later 23rd and 24th centuries as obviously the technology exists in the Federation. It also explains why Data had to fight for his rights, and why the Starfleet Admiralty was so concerned when he created an offspring.
 
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I wonder if anybody besides Leland is aware of Controls misbehavior.

Does Georgieu already have a clue and that is what she's holding over Leland?
 
Ultimately, the threat to all life in the galaxy due to Control is kinda similar, though not quite as ridiculous as, Stamets' line about all life in the multiverse dying if they failed last season.

Basically my issue is if it's so damn easy to build a killer AI which wipes out all sentient life, why didn't it happen billions of years ago? It's a big galaxy, and there are thousands of races at any given time. Surely someone out there made something analogous to Control.
^^^
You should probably go rewatch TOS S2 - "The Doomsday Machine". My point? Yes, in the Star Trek universe we probably do have Civilizations building Galaxy wide threats; and then those same civilizations (much like the Federation here) work to prevent catastrophe and correct their mistakes (to varying degrees of success.) ;)

The conceit in all of Star Trek is: No matter the odds, life prevails. :)
 
I couldn't agree more, I also thought "Sherlock" when watching him this episode. It's a pity because in theory, I like a lot of the stuff separately (the learning disability, drawing skill, Peck's acting) but not when put together. He just felt like another "troubled boy genius" character which is a complete mischaracterization imho

Every time in TOS when Spocks control slipped it was demonstrated that it is pretty easy to get him enraged. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME, So him being angry is not out of character for Spock at all.

Does Spock get angry with Cornwell when she's suggesting he's lying. No. Does Spock get angry with Stamets when Stamet's gets snippy? No. Who is the ONLY person Spock gets angry with? Michael.

Now, ask yourself why Michael is the only person he lets his control slip with and then ask yourself again how does that make this character a failure of interpretation?
 
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It's interesting to see all the varying opinions on this episode, because it was an easy 10 for me, very easy! I usually grade purely on an entertainment scale and I usually only knock things down for pacing and/or 'wtf that doesn't make sense' moments when they distract from the entertainment, and this was strong for me.

Pike vs. Cornwell: This was such a moving scene, especially since I've been feeling a little off-put by Cornwell this season given her ease in doing what's not the 'obvious' right thing to do. But her speech against Pike putting him up there as Starfleet's best, that was an excellent and well earned speech, especially given all the heroics and 'do the right thing' moments we've gotten from him this season. Well earned.

Michael vs. Spock: I've been dying for this scene all season and I was not disappointed in the slightest. These two act off each other so well, when their superficial personalities seem so different and so alien to each other, but you can tell they're both driven by this kind of self-loathing from equally troubled childhoods and trauma. Sibling interactions are fascinating to me, as an only child, but as a child of trauma these two characters are wonderfully written and acted. I was really surprised that they reveal Spock's anger towards Michael as anger towards himself, but it makes sense. I got chills when she finally shouted at him, that felt like such a real moment. Straight up home run.

Spock vs. Stamets: Now, this is an interaction I had not expected in the slightest, but it was delightful and a half. We need more of this. At first, I was curious to how Spock knew so much about what was going on, but it occurred to me that maybe Spock just knew Dr. Culber's name (he could have asked after seeing them in the hallway) and just put together 'guy moving out of other guy's quarters and other guy looks sad now' and came to the logical conclusion. His advice was ambiguous but it was exactly what needed to be said, even without the actual details of what may have happened. I think that's a little bit more touching than Spock having known exactly what happened. I like this theme that many of our major players are having trouble with blaming themselves for things out of their control.

Airiam and bridge crew vs. The Death Flag: Learning about Airiam's past all of a sudden? Some beautiful moments with the crew and finally showing some emotion? This had a Gundam death all over it, and while the trope is predictable and oft used in these types of shows, DSC pulled it off beautifully in my opinion. I would have liked to see all these little memory snippets spread out throughout the series as it would have not only made Airiam's death harder emotionally, but it would have also made Detmer, Owo, and Tilly's reactions all the more heartbreaking. But, if we can only get all of that in one single episode, I'm fine...because it happened. Detmer got the cutest damn line of the whole series when she tells Airiam not to forget the little people. I doubt we're ever going to get a TNG's Lower Decks on this show, but that single line was satisfying for me. It acknowledges that these other crew members are lower tier staff and that they know it too, but that doesn't mean that they don't have their own feelings about what's happening. It's just not what the show is about. To take a third-tier character, build her up in a single episode, and then give her a dramatic death that was better served than the deaths of previous main characters is quite an accomplishment in writing, acting, and directing. And Kadis-kot!

The pacing here felt perfect. So much was jammed into this episode and is easily Frakes' best of DSC to date. Between the intimate moments, highly charged emotions, action sequences, and reaction shots, this episode had it all and was still cohesive from scene to scene. I didn't notice any sloppy spinning-around-the-characters this time (or at least, not to the point where I notice it) that he's had a bit of trouble with in his past two episodes, which was nice.

Nothing that bothered me about this episode (the sloppy intro of Control, the 'uhhh, there's probably a better way to go about this' of the mine fields, no one noticing the MANY times Airiam's eyes freaking turn clearly red and EEEVIIIL, Control being the big bad) bothered me enough to take any points off. This was a great episode. On the grand scheme of DSC, though, I think it's kind of boring that SUPER EVIL AI is now the big bad rather than the moral ambiguity represented in Section 31 being the bad guy. I mean, at this point, Pike and Leland are probably going to have to team up to save the day. I'm pretty meh on that (although it will be nice to see these two old friends actually act like friends, even though one of them is a major asshole.) I am a sucker for repaired friendships and redemption arcs, after all.
 
If Spock ultimately couldn't even really rebuild his relationship with Sarek (his biological father) after 100+ years (see TNG S5 "Unification II"); I doubt we'll see the Spock/Burnham relationship repaired. Yeah, they'll work together to save the Universe here as needed; but it'll be like the worst aspects of the future Spock/McCoy relationship on steroids. (IMO) ;)

I don't know about that. He as much told Burnham what it will take for them to mend their relationship in this ep. I can see why Sarek couldn't make that leap, as he's not really able to change who he is in his relationship to anyone except under immense stress and even then he reverts back. We have, however, seen how Burhnam's relationships with Saru, Sarek and others have evolved. She's shown she's capable of something Sarek is not.
 
He's not yet the Spock we know from TOS. (which I think is a good thing)
They've got several years to develop him into that character.
It's more of an earlier rendition, than a mischaracterization.
Be rather silly to have him just become Nimoy's version overnight.
(that's kinda-sorta the point of going back multiple years to show the characters development)

Every time in TOS when Spocks control slipped it was demonstrated that it is pretty easy to get him enraged. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME, So him being angry is not out of character for Spock at all.

Does Spock get angry with Cornwell when she's suggesting he's lying. No. Does Spock get angry with Stamets when Stamet's gets snippy? No. Who is the ONLY person Spock gets angry with? Michael.

Now, ask yourself why Michael is the only person he lets his control slip with and then ask yourself again how does that making this character a failure of interpretation?

The problem isn't that he's not fully the Nimoy-version. The problem is that he's a completely different, much more generic version.

Reminds me a lot of the people defending "Man of Steel" - for when everyone was saying that person "wasn't Superman", they usually would say "well, he's not that person yet". While missing that the main problem wasn't that he wasn't fully formed yet - but that he was a fully formed, different character - in this case they tried to make him "Batman", because that was what was popular at the time. Same way how last years' "Robin Hood" tried to make "The Hood" into Batman as well. Here it's just swapped out with a different, popular character - the anti-social genuis Sherlock/Sheldon.

In a same way - nothing is really wrong about Ethan Peck's relationship with Burnham - hell, if I just knew him as "Burnham's Vulcan brother", it would probably really dig their interactions this season. The problem is they are trying to make him Spock, when he's clearly a completely different stereotype in all regards.
 
A number of people have wondered why Ariam wasn't transported back to the ship. As she was still under Control's control I don't think they could dare bring her back. She was too much of a security risk and something that they didn't think was controllable, even in the brig.
 
The problem isn't that he's not fully the Nimoy-version. The problem is that he's a completely different, much more generic version.

Reminds me a lot of the people defending "Man of Steel" - for when everyone was saying that person "wasn't Superman", they usually would say "well, he's not that person yet". While missing that the main problem wasn't that he wasn't fully formed yet - but that he was a fully formed, different character - in this case they tried to make him "Batman", because that was what was popular at the time. Same way how last years' "Robin Hood" tried to make "The Hood" into Batman as well. Here it's just swapped out with a different, popular character - the anti-social genuis Sherlock/Sheldon.

In a same way - nothing is really wrong about Ethan Peck's relationship with Burnham - hell, if I just knew him as "Burnham's Vulcan brother", it would probably really dig their interactions this season. The problem is they are trying to make him Spock, when he's clearly a completely different stereotype in all regards.

I think there's a problem where people are trying to shoehorn any new interpretation of a classic character into what is best known at the time. Its reductionist theory made via a pop culture lens. Its like watching S1 of Discovery and declaring "This is Game of Thrones in space!". Worse, it prevents these people who are insisting to reduce characters to others they are watching, like Peck's Spock into Sherlock/Sheldon, from seeing any nuance or subtley on display, because they are so devoted to creating this as a meme that they are blocking themselves (and attempting to block others) from enjoying Peck's interpretation.
 
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