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THE ORVILLE S2, E10: "BLOOD OF PATRIOTS"

I actually think The Orville would do great if it moved to Netflix or even Amazon Prime. Netflix seems like it could pay a decent budget for the show plus probably give Seth more creative freedom. And The Orville could produce an entire season and upload all the eps at once and let us fans enjoy binge watching every episode.
I really wouldn't count on this show finding a home where they can do what they do now, if it's canceled by Fox. Not quickly, certainly. In terms of budget and format it's far from ideal for streaming, and just because Netflix and Amazon have picked up a few canceled broadcast series that have followings doesn't mean that they'll want this one.
 
Overall, pretty decent episode. Not great, though.

First off, nice to see Yaphit getting his medal! I love that guy, and it's always fun to see him oozing around.

So, my original impression of the Krill was that they were there to be the ultimate implacable enemy - the way their religion was described, there seems like there would be no possibility of peace with them. So it's kind of strange to me that they're now willing to make peace. Not a problem as such, just means my initial impression was wrong and the writers are taking it another way.

The first real issue I have with the episode comes up pretty early... as soon as the Krill accuse Gordon's pal of being some bad guy who's killed loads of their people, it was pretty obvious that they were telling the truth. Not that there were clues, but in a "what's the obvious way this will pan out" kind of a way. It put me in mind of The Wounded in TNG, and I figured they would do something along those lines as soon as that scene happened. Not a huge problem, but it would have been stronger to do something different with it.

Along similar lines, as soon as the Krill said something about him using a weapon, but he didn't have a weapon, I figured that the girl was the weapon. Only I thought it would be a bit more "mutant power"... I pictured her doing a Magneto and crushing ships with her mind or something.

Loooove Talla doing her TSA impersonation. "Do you have any fruits or vegetables?" Funny, but it does make me think - ships like the Enterprise or the Orville, why wouldn't they need to do stuff like this with people coming aboard? And the rubber glove... too funny.

Speaking of Talla, nice to see Ed asking her what she thought of the guy and she immediately says there's something off about him. As Security Gal she should have good instincts for stuff like this. I also wonder if the writers weren't doing this on purpose. One of the classic writing mistakes is to have your audience ahead of your characters, and there was an element of that here since the audience is going to pretty much know there's something off about the guy. By having at least some of the characters realise it too, even if they have nothing to base that on, they at least avoid that aspect.

Also nice to see Talla almost immediately catching him up to no good. She's good at her job!

Another weakness of the episode was Gordon apparently turning bad and helping his pal steal a shuttle. Didn't buy that for a second - there's no way a main character is going to turn evil, so it's never convincing when he seems to. Still, they only sold us that for like one scene, so it's not like it was the big thrust of the episode or anything.

And another nice Talla moment, with her "Did you ever meet a Xelayan?" I admit it, I like to see Xelayans kicking ass.

Okay, here's my biggest problem - the ending. Malloy pulls a gun on his friend. His friend knocks it out of his hand, and they fight. It was a nice fight, well choreographed. Guy sets his bomb counting down as Malloy grabs the gun. Malloy shoots the console out and puts a space suit on so that he can jump off the shuttle before it goes boom.

Now here's my problem - the guns have a stun setting. They even demonstrated that this particular gun has a stun setting by shooting Talla with it. So why didn't Malloy just shoot his Evil Pal the instant he pulled a gun on him? Then the bomb never goes off and everything is fine!

Okay, he wanted to give him a chance to surrender. So they fight, his pal activates the bomb. So why not shoot him now? Whilst he's unconscious you throw the bomb out of the back door. Bomb go boom, Malloy is fine, Evil Pal is fine but unconscious, the shuttle is fine.

It's a really simple solution that's ignored because they wanted to cool moment of Malloy jumping out the shuttle and having a 'splosion and tractor beam and stuff.

All in all, then, this was... okay. But no more than okay. I don't know that I've ever seen an Orville episode that I think is truly bad, so I don't think this was a terrible episode or anything, but in any list of quality eps, my take is that this one is going to be in the bottom five or so.
 
Ed suggested a few weeks ago that the Krill's fundamentalism had been a fear reaction - that they were apparently a much less rigid culture before they discovered other intelligences. That dovetails somewhat with the notion put forth by Admiral Perry this week that there are "progressive" elements in the Krill hierarchy that might be pressing the peace cause.

All of the spacefaring cultures - most, anyway, I may be overlooking one - in this show are more or less sophisticated and somewhat modern cultures. No Klingons as they developed during modern Trek.
 
As always, the acting is first rate but commendation goes to Mackenzie Astin - he would have made a lovely recurring character on this show - one hell of a dramatic actor, and to think he acted alongside Jo, Tootie, Blair, and Natalie over 30 years ago as a comic relief item... like Jaleel White, he's immensely underrated for serious dramatic work.

A few plot twists, some I predicted but then they found a way to do some remarkable left-turns.

The complexity of diplomatic situations was handled with some deftness and nuance between characters.

The incidental music in season 2 is more than cinematic. I hope it gets released on CD or iTunes download because this stuff is worthy, absolutely first rate.

Seth MacFarlane's script is taut and pretty much top notch. Dramatic at all the right places and nuanced, multi-layered, thought provoking and inclusive of numerous mindsets and keeping the audience on its toes as to what future episodes may bright.

And the gross-out comedy worked immensely well in the story's favor, on top of the twists and turns and delay tactics. And the latex glove scene worked wonders since it lets the audience decide "Just what is she thinking of NOW?"

Maybe a little tight in a couple spots later on in the episode, but enough exposition was given early on that it balances out.

The show continues to find itself and improve by leaps and bounds. While "Identity" pt 1 is the best so far, this one comes surprisingly close to being on par and, indeed, is a lot more breathtaking than pt 2 of "Identity" was (which had some great scenes in what was ultimately a too-conventional denouement at times). Next week's may or may not continue this level of adrenaline, but the show's got some mojo and rather a lot of it.

9.5/10.

SPOILERS FOLLOW:

Notice that Isaac and Claire are in different rows; Seth and crew rightly taking a sidestep - and exploring more than just Maclans for once, but I'd rather not see the Maclans burnt out so soon.

His "daughter" and the technobabbley stuff were some of the best. Especially the commercial break cliffhanger and all that led to it, complete with reveal that she can indeed speak. The use of her blood as the reagent needed to cause such explosions in a nitrogen-rich atmosphere is a nice bit of cleverness.

The friendship between Malloy and Mackenzie (I forgot his name, sorry!) was an obvious plot setup to bring in the old "test the loyalties" trope - which is as old as drama itself, so I don't say that as a slag against the episode. How it was handled was pretty darn good.

More on Mackenzie - if he were a recurring character, a la Eddington, would have been a slam dunk but given the circumstances everything about his character worked.

Loved the plan, after the drinking scene, where it's pretty much said everyone was working to a plan (Talla, Malloy, Mercer). Loved the delay tactics by Mackenzie too.

I'm sure this episode has a couple Trek-based sources of inspiration. It's irrelevant because I was so engrossed in the plot I didn't stop to think and nitpick which and where. Heck, if Star Wars can cop Samurai films for plot and appearance and innovate by post-production to make swords glow pretty colors then we can have shows of intellectual depth do innovating as well. There are shades of Cardassians and Klingons, but Orville has worked hard - and succeeded some time ago - in making its own universe and having the audience live in their universe instead of nothing more than pointless homages.

Well, the cool musical instrument device was obviously a nod to Futurama's holophoner, but that didn't stop me from enjoying the setup of the girl and fooling the audience before doing the big reveal later on.
 
From a comedic perspective the scenes of Talla doing the urine tests and gloving up were hilarious, but I don't believe for a moment that any reasonable species, and especially one as notably volatile as the Krill, would submit to that kind of testing for a diplomatic mission. They would have been out of there in a heartbeat, and the peace treaty would be off.

As it stands the episode made them come off as remarkably patient and willing to endure extraordinary insult in the cause of peace, which doesn't really fit their M.O. Maybe the Kaylon have got them more spooked then they let on.

Not to mention, while Ed did technically resolve the issue of stopping the person destroying their ships, they did ask for him to be turned over to them for interrogation, not to be killed. I thought that all got wrapped up a bit too neatly with a bow at the end.

This was a good episode for character development and performances, especially for Talla, Gordon, and Claire. I thought it was going to be difficult to fill Alara's shoes, but Talla has done extraordinarily well and made the character her own. Sadly, when Alara returns (if?), I doubt they'll keep both of them on due to the outward similarity of their characters and jobs, but I wish they would, because Talla has really grown on me as a valued member of the crew. I think they could find another job for her (or for Alara), and her personality is different enough from Alara's to differentiate the two story-wise.

It was nice to see Yaphit not get the Chewbacca snub and to be recognized for his heroism with a medal.

I know they were focused on other things this episode, but I think they could have used some acknowledgment that not everyone is comfortable with Isaac remaining aboard, and perhaps tied it in with acknowledging the tens of thousands of deaths the Union fleet must have suffered in the Kaylon battle. It didn't need to be a lot, perhaps a crewmember questioning Isaac's appearance at Yaphet's award ceremony or something. They could have even turned it into a moment of levity by saying "You have a lot or nerve showing your face in here after all the people you Kaylon killed!" and have Isaac say "I have no face" or something like that in retort.

Can't really say I blame Orrin and his "daughter" too much after enduring all those years of imprisonment and torture. What they did wasn't right, but they had long since become broken people, and revenge was all they had left. It was more sad than anything else.

Scott Grimes handled the emotional core of the episode well, and it was nice that they let him have a more subdued, dramatic performance for a change instead of being the ship's doofus. He's definitely more than capable given his past roles on ER and Band of Brothers among others.
 
Overall, pretty decent episode. Not great, though.

First off, nice to see Yaphit getting his medal! I love that guy, and it's always fun to see him oozing around.

now if he and Dr Finn become a shipping item (sigh), that'll at least be more insightful than most forms of drivel being shipped from other shows. Any crap soap opera can have characters hit the sheets. Yawn. Sci-fi forgets it's sci-fi and can explore a lot more than just what fabric is used in the bed sheets.

So, my original impression of the Krill was that they were there to be the ultimate implacable enemy - the way their religion was described, there seems like there would be no possibility of peace with them. So it's kind of strange to me that they're now willing to make peace. Not a problem as such, just means my initial impression was wrong and the writers are taking it another way.

In "Identity", I took it at face value that the Kaylon threat was an impetus. "Blood of Patriots" almost seems to go out of its way to ignore the preceding episode, favoring the wildcard of Malloy's friend and with a little exposition. I agree with you, this turn of events for the peace treaty seems a little different, but I accept it as a continuation of the arc starting with "Identity". Casual audiences might have benefited from a recap, but it's only been one week and catering to casuals is like making a lion a pet and then wondering why it casually eats your arm for dinner one day, it's not seeing you the same way you're seeing it I suppose?

The first real issue I have with the episode comes up pretty early... as soon as the Krill accuse Gordon's pal of being some bad guy who's killed loads of their people, it was pretty obvious that they were telling the truth. Not that there were clues, but in a "what's the obvious way this will pan out" kind of a way. It put me in mind of The Wounded in TNG, and I figured they would do something along those lines as soon as that scene happened. Not a huge problem, but it would have been stronger to do something different with it.

Ah! I thought there was a TNG callback - but there are only so many plotlines to begin with and we've had Krill episodes before. It's not quite the same way, there are some differences so it's not a pallid remake. Could it have been stronger? Yeah. Some plot twists were predictable but then came twists on those that threw me off. I dunno.

Along similar lines, as soon as the Krill said something about him using a weapon, but he didn't have a weapon, I figured that the girl was the weapon. Only I thought it would be a bit more "mutant power"... I pictured her doing a Magneto and crushing ships with her mind or something.

LOL!!

Okay, the girl threw me off completely. I was wondering "Did the guy have weapons but destroyed or ditched them somewhere?" I kept thinking that, so I overlooked other possibilities.

Loooove Talla doing her TSA impersonation. "Do you have any fruits or vegetables?" Funny, but it does make me think - ships like the Enterprise or the Orville, why wouldn't they need to do stuff like this with people coming aboard? And the rubber glove... too funny.

Speaking of Talla, nice to see Ed asking her what she thought of the guy and she immediately says there's something off about him. As Security Gal she should have good instincts for stuff like this. I also wonder if the writers weren't doing this on purpose. One of the classic writing mistakes is to have your audience ahead of your characters, and there was an element of that here since the audience is going to pretty much know there's something off about the guy. By having at least some of the characters realise it too, even if they have nothing to base that on, they at least avoid that aspect.

Other shows, including Trek, have done that many times. "Space Seed" being the most glaring example, even before Kirk let Khan freely read up on how the ship worked... Tonight's Orville episode, I felt, kept the "Okay, when's the shoe going to drop" suspense going fairly well as could the Krill have been doing a setup or maybe the twist is that Mackenzie is the good guy for real, and so on. (The twist was, his child also died along with his wife - it worked for me at the time, but doing a rewatch in a couple weeks might see the flaws of the story become more obvious. I still love it as it stands.)

Also nice to see Talla almost immediately catching him up to no good. She's good at her job!

It was the most obvious bit, but I kept hoping they'd show Malloy going to Mercer on screen. One bit of dialogue (homing device, his asking for the plan) had me thinking they had an off-screen scene discussing the big plan. Maybe I read into it wrong.

Another weakness of the episode was Gordon apparently turning bad and helping his pal steal a shuttle. Didn't buy that for a second - there's no way a main character is going to turn evil, so it's never convincing when he seems to. Still, they only sold us that for like one scene, so it's not like it was the big thrust of the episode or anything.

After Isaac, anything's possible. I was wondering "Oi, he's a main character. Is this show really going off the deep end and taking big bold risks?" It was refreshing to see that, no, Malloy really wasn't but was working with the senior officers on a plan. Otherwise he'd be in the brig and not chatting with Mercer about his friend whose personality died in the camp.

And another nice Talla moment, with her "Did you ever meet a Xelayan?" I admit it, I like to see Xelayans kicking ass.

That was an awesome scene! Then comes the doc, who sees the yellow blood (not a common hue) and recognizes the danger. The cliffhanger and its resolution were absolutely first rate. And the bonus of how her blood becomes an explosive in an atmosphere with nitrogen. That was brilliant.

Okay, here's my biggest problem - the ending. Malloy pulls a gun on his friend. His friend knocks it out of his hand, and they fight. It was a nice fight, well choreographed. Guy sets his bomb counting down as Malloy grabs the gun. Malloy shoots the console out and puts a space suit on so that he can jump off the shuttle before it goes boom.

When Malloy whipped it out, I was screaming at the TV for him to use the thing - despite knowing he wouldn't and as a result big drama would ensue. And, oh yeah, it was perfectly choreographed. Looked authentic. A far cry from 1960s action movies where they speed up the film or use other tricks (which works, but isn't the same thing. Neither is modern day CGI, nothing compares to solid choreography and actors that can pull it off so well like that.)

Didn't Malloy ask him to put the suit on? (I thought I saw two). But then he's be prisoner and sent to the Krill and would be killed. Whatever caused Mackenzie to sit there and wait to be blown to bits was serendipitous in terms of the peace treaty narrative at the backbone of this story.

I was also half-hoping the Krill would have gotten to him first. Which reminds me, in the last episode we see Malloy and Kelly entering Krill space and captured very quickly. They're not in Krill space but it stands reason to believe that Krill might be monitoring the area for unusual activity. The shuttle and explosion qualify for that. :D

Now here's my problem - the guns have a stun setting. They even demonstrated that this particular gun has a stun setting by shooting Talla with it. So why didn't Malloy just shoot his Evil Pal the instant he pulled a gun on him? Then the bomb never goes off and everything is fine!

Oops, this is why I don't read ahead. There's be no drama or story if he did that, and the fight scene made up for it. My other guess is that, he wasn't sure if Mackenzie as he knew him died in the POW camp, so he didn't want to fire.

Okay, he wanted to give him a chance to surrender. So they fight, his pal activates the bomb. So why not shoot him now? Whilst he's unconscious you throw the bomb out of the back door. Bomb go boom, Malloy is fine, Evil Pal is fine but unconscious, the shuttle is fine.

Fight or flight response, not everyone thinks on their feet so perfectly 100% of the time. In any well-written show involving human beings, that is. Even with aliens, that 100% thing ends up feeling like a cheat. Here comes the old song'n'dance about Mary Sue 'n' Marty Stu...

It's a really simple solution that's ignored because they wanted to cool moment of Malloy jumping out the shuttle and having a 'splosion and tractor beam and stuff.

As far as gimmicks go, I don't think that's been done before quite like that. Though at this point it was obvious he'd be found on cue. I was still hoping it'd be the Krill, but if it panned out that way then there goes a wild card in terms of what may be coming in the remaining three episodes, if this peace stuff works out or if there's another battle looming. But this episode did sell the shakiness of founding treaties rather well.

All in all, then, this was... okay. But no more than okay. I don't know that I've ever seen an Orville episode that I think is truly bad, so I don't think this was a terrible episode or anything, but in any list of quality eps, my take is that this one is going to be in the bottom five or so.

I'll definitely rewatch. I think it's one of the best of season 2, but it is more "war story drama" versus sci-fi exploration (e.g. New Dimensions). But I'm a sucker for good DS9 style war stories too. :D
 
Not to mention, while Ed did technically resolve the issue of stopping the person destroying their ships, they did ask for him to be turned over to them for interrogation, not to be killed. I thought that all got wrapped up a bit too neatly with a bow at the end.

To be fair, it's not like Ed or someone killed the guy directly, he killed himself. The Krill are probably thankful the guy died alone instead of taking out another ship. They probably handed the "daughter" over for interrogation. (Which likely would have had with it fewer extradition hurdles to overcome.)
 
From a comedic perspective the scenes of Talla doing the urine tests and gloving up were hilarious, but I don't believe for a moment that any reasonable species, and especially one as notably volatile as the Krill, would submit to that kind of testing for a diplomatic mission. They would have been out of there in a heartbeat, and the peace treaty would be off.

As it stands the episode made them come off as remarkably patient and willing to endure extraordinary insult in the cause of peace, which doesn't really fit their M.O. Maybe the Kaylon have got them more spooked then they let on.

They'd have stayed. They're a very strict by the book species. We laughed at the "mother's maiden name" and "urine specimen", but as far as they know, that is procedure for coming aboard the ship and they will respect procedure.
 
Re the Krill accepting the "glove test", we don't even know that Talla went through with it. Just as likely that they were like "No way!" and she then spent the next hour arguing with them about it. That would accomplish the job of delaying them just as much as some actual backdoor spelunking would.
 
A bit disappointing. The TNG 2.0 vibe was very strong here (I like it best when it’s much weaker). Immediately thought of The Wounded even though I’ve not seen it in 15 years or more. None of the twists were surprising.

Did enjoy the return of the pee corner.
 
Also nice to see Talla almost immediately catching him up to no good. She's good at her job!
Well, I found a plot hole! Didn't Ed tell Talla to tell LaMarr to check everything and see if something is amiss? They even knew in which area exactly to look, why did he not see the missing containers before?
Also, where did he even hide them? They weren't exactly small.

I love how much social commentary we get even in small scenes. I am referring to the drinking scene in the beginning. It's funny on first glance but then you catch the meaning behind it. I've read lots of discussions how tired people are always being asked to drink alcohol and having to explain themselves over and over again and still get pressured, some even going as far as slipping something into somebody's drink despite knowing that they are a dry alcoholican. No means no, even if a ship captain says it.
 
6/10 would have been a 5 but i liked the focus on Gordon.

This episode was far too much 'TNG-lite' for my liking, which I think the Orville had been doing a good job of moving away from. I also didn't like that they seemed to take a leaf out of Voyager's book and have the ship looking brand spanking new and no real consequences from last weeks episode. I didn't like it when TNG and VOY did stuff like this and i think the Orville can do better. Compared to last week and most of this season this episode was pretty mediocre.
 
Not to mention, while Ed did technically resolve the issue of stopping the person destroying their ships, they did ask for him to be turned over to them for interrogation, not to be killed. I thought that all got wrapped up a bit too neatly with a bow at the end.

He clearly didn't take anything when we first see him in the room, he obviously returned later and stole the canisters.

It's interesting Ed dismisses the stolen canisters as being equivalent to steeling pens from the office, I mean... those canisters seem like pretty significant "pens" for someone to steal.
 
Well, I found a plot hole! Didn't Ed tell Talla to tell LaMarr to check everything and see if something is amiss? They even knew in which area exactly to look, why did he not see the missing containers before?
Also, where did he even hide them? They weren't exactly small.
I assumed that he didn't steal them at that point - he would have, but Talla caught him so he just left. Then he came back later and stole them then.

I love how much social commentary we get even in small scenes. I am referring to the drinking scene in the beginning. It's funny on first glance but then you catch the meaning behind it. I've read lots of discussions how tired people are always being asked to drink alcohol and having to explain themselves over and over again and still get pressured, some even going as far as slipping something into somebody's drink despite knowing that they are a dry alcoholican. No means no, even if a ship captain says it.
Huh, never thought about that but yeah, I've heard that that can happen.
 
I assumed that he didn't steal them at that point - he would have, but Talla caught him so he just left. Then he came back later and stole them then.
All the more reason to keep an eye on him and not allow him back there a second time! Admiring the engine room for its technology is one thing, but he really has no business at all in the storage room.
 
All the more reason to keep an eye on him and not allow him back there a second time! Admiring the engine room for its technology is one thing, but he really has no business at all in the storage room.
But she did specifically say that as a Union officer he has the run of the ship. He has every right to go into any storage area, and her having weird feelings about him doing it doesn't change that.
 
But she did specifically say that as a Union officer he has the run of the ship. He has every right to go into any storage area, and her having weird feelings about him doing it doesn't change that.
When I started in my job, I could walk anywhere in the office, still I could not just go and get stationary supplies from the storage. I had to ask the secretary and she would give them to me. He had no need nor official explanation to what he needed these for.
 
When I started in my job, I could walk anywhere in the office, still I could not just go and get stationary supplies from the storage. I had to ask the secretary and she would give them to me.
And in the Orville you're not allowed to just go grab things out of storage. But you are allowed to just wander into the storage rooms.
 
Overall an ok episode. Not captivating. Not awful. Not overly original but ok.

I like it when shows avoid the truly terrible episodes.
 
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