Supergirl - Season Four

[David cgc]

(what the hell did Marsdin see in this guy as a running mate?)

Favorable geographic spread?

I wonder if the end of the episode wasn't giving us a few clues about how this storyline is going to wrap up. The way James called out the President's recent decisions as being suspect suggests that there might be more to it than him being a craven, poll-following opportunist, or a secret jackass who only now is able to put his terrible opinions into practice. And the fight between Lockwood and the less photogenic members of the Children of Liberty might be setting up that the group might be felled by internal dissent, feedback loops, and paranoia.

 

[thribs]

Lex as President no doubt.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Of course, the idea of the president not laying out that a time might come where there would be a legitimate defensive situation demanding the need for the satellite is the showrunners being the showrunners.

Being overly liberal or overly proimmigrant?

I think the showrunners are showing what happens when one guy has total control over the government. Did he ever suggest the Congress of the United States okayed this two Billion dollar program? Or that they signed off on preemptive use of this firepower?

Also... just because something looks like a swing at the current Trumpian government, doesn't mean that it is.

I listened to this radiolab show today and found it quite powerful. Sure, the Air Force major's concerns re: a president having the power to order a nuclear first strike sounds like the talking points of "liberal media commentators" regarding Trump, but its not. It was the concerns of a young Vietnam veteran over President Nixon.

https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/nukes

I wonder if the end of the episode wasn't giving us a few clues about how this storyline is going to wrap up. The way James called out the President's recent decisions as being suspect suggests that there might be more to it than him being a craven, poll-following opportunist,

I thought James was referring more to Lena's off the books/ black ops program for the government when James asked his minion to get in touch with her contact. I bet the President's just as shallow as we suspect.

I did like Alex showing up to save Supergirl and suggesting they could talk once in a while.

And speaking of Supergirl, doesn't she have Monel's Legion flight ring? If Brainey asks nicely, I bet she'd loan it to him.

As for the ending...I hate to say it, but as I watched Alex confer with Lena and Miss Tessmacher at the end, all I could think was "please don't be a Lex Luthor plant, Miss Tessmach, please, please, please don't be a plant!"

 

[Guy Gardener]

Earth needs a border in space.

But America's Border in space is not the entire planet.

Unless the rest of the planet was looped in, and chipped in, and asked to be protected by America from the nasty aliens, even if Claymore was always in geosynchronous orbit over America, it's very presence is sabre rattling at every other country in the world, and would have started WWIII.

Meanwhile if Claymore was only stopping aliens from getting into America, then it wouldn't be difficult to just tell the approaching alien tourists and alien refugees that.

"We have a space gun, but Britain and Russia does not. Go visit Moscow or London. Thank you."

 

[Charles Phipps]

I'm getting real tired of how the show keeps portraying, "Guys who kill Fascists" as on the same as "Guys who are Fascists."

Yes, Black is not a good person but the simple fact is that the government and the KKK...err, sorry COL are in cahoots for a planned genocide of the planet's alien citizens.

We're deep in "Magneto was right" territory now.

These people remember which side we fought on in WW2, right?

 

[Kirk Prime]

Well, here we go again with the politics. Supergirl wasn't much of a hero in this episode. Who is she to play God and impose her morals on the world? That satellite which she destroyed was a decision made by the elected officials of the United States as a matter of national security.

She had no right to do that. This is exactly what Jor-El told his son not to do in Superman The Movie.

Supergirl should be following in her cousin's footsteps and serve as an inspiration, but not as a God. Whether she agreed with the policy or not, she had no right to destroy it.

The President may not be portrayed sympathetically, but he was acting on his authority, and there has been no indication that this satellite was not built with full backing of Congress.

Supergirl was no hero in this story.

And you have Manchester Black and his vigilantes, taking the law into their own hands, killing people they disagree with. Also--not heroes.

And finally, you have the Children of Liberty crowd, also committing crimes and taking the law into their own hands. Not heroes.

This is a superhero show where everyone, including the title character, is doing the wrong thing.

Says something about the writing when there is no one to root for.

Supergirl learning the lessons that Superman did. That America is evil and that she shouldn’t be just associated with one country.

I hope you don't mean that, because that's a disgusting comment and an ignorant one. But that's the liberal point of view which is why they represent all that's wrong with the country.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Well, here we go again with the politics. Supergirl wasn't much of a hero in this episode. Who is she to play God and impose her morals on the world?

This falls immediately apart with the fact that if you don't act on your conscience then you are a failure as a human being.

That satellite which she destroyed was a decision made by the elected officials of the United States as a matter of national security.

Ever hear of a thing called the American revolution?

She had no right to do that. This is exactly what Jor-El told his son not to do in Superman The Movie.

Yes, and Jor-El was wrong.

Supergirl should be following in her cousin's footsteps and serve as an inspiration, but not as a God. Whether she agreed with the policy or not, she had no right to destroy it.

It's a weapon designed to kill any alien who approaches Earth, which is a home for refugees.

The President may not be portrayed sympathetically, but he was acting on his authority, and there has been no indication that this satellite was not built with full backing of Congress.

Again, we're a nation founded on rebellion.

Supergirl was no hero in this story.

Since when has rebellion against tyranny been anti-American?

And you have Manchester Black and his vigilantes, taking the law into their own hands, killing people they disagree with. Also--not heroes.

They're killing Nazis. We used to give medals for that.

And finally, you have the Children of Liberty crowd, also committing crimes and taking the law into their own hands. Not heroes.

The law has no innate moral value when imposed by tyrants. Again, the literal basis of the American government. Breaking the law can be an act of justice and morality. It's just not these guys because they're child-murdering fascists.

This is a superhero show where everyone, including the title character, is doing the wrong thing.

What is the proper action when the President commits atrocities? George Washington would say kick him out.

I hope you don't mean that, because that's a disgusting comment and an ignorant one. But that's the liberal point of view which is why they represent all that's wrong with the country.

I'm liberal and love my country. My country right or wrong. If my country right, keep it right. If my country wrong, make it right.

 

[Romulan_spy]

It is worth noting that the satellite was about to zap the White House into smithereens ala Independence Day. Supergirl saved the lives of the President and the entire White House staff. I would say she was being a hero!

 

[Kirk Prime]

This falls immediately apart with the fact that if you don't act on your conscience then you are a failure as a human being.

Got to love that liberal tolerance. Disagree with a liberal, and the nastiness begins.

And that is wrong. Your rights end where someone else's begins. And what you are advocating for is use of brute force to impose your will on those that disagree with you. That's a dangerous line of thinking.

Ever hear of a thing called the American revolution?

Yes--and not only have I, I know enough about it to know that one person imposing their will on millions without giving them any say inspired it. Which one was Supergirl?

Yes, and Jor-El was wrong.

You would make a great proponent of totalitarianism with this attitude. You clearly believe that the strong should impose their will on the weak, and that might makes right.

Not respecting the laws of the people is wrong.

Since when has rebellion against tyranny been anti-American?

Actually, Supergirl was acting more tyrannical than anyone in this episode. She unilaterally destroyed a satellite because she disagreed with the President. Anarchy is quite unAmerican.

They're killing Nazis. We used to give medals for that.

When you use the term Nazi to describe something completely different, you are not only wrong, you show a massive disrespect for those that actually died at the hands of the Nazis. And you diminish the true evil that they were. Nazi is not a term that means "disagree with a liberal."

It is not the place of vigilantes to take the law into their own hands. Manchester Black attacked a military installation. Murdered US soldiers. And even if all he was doing was killing Children of Liberty, he is no better than they are. Arrests and due process are how you handle that, not mob rule.

The law has no innate moral value when imposed by tyrants. Again, the literal basis of the American government. Breaking the law can be an act of justice and morality. It's just not these guys because they're child-murdering fascists.

Wrong. What you are describing is anarchy, not a representative democracy. You are advocating violence for every issue you do not agree with. The Children of Liberty are wrong, but so was Supergirl, and there is absolutely no ambiguity of that, other than the morality of the writers, who seem to have none.

What is the proper action when the President commits atrocities? George Washington would say kick him out.

Impeach or vote him out, and that will be done by the people and Congress, not by some alien who wants to impose her decisions on others.

I'm liberal and love my country. My country right or wrong. If my country right, keep it right. If my country wrong, make it right.

If you believe that the United States is purely evil, you do not love your country. You also do not know its history.

 

[Kirk Prime]

It is worth noting that the satellite was about to zap the White House into smithereens ala Independence Day. Supergirl saved the lives of the President and the entire White House staff. I would say she was being a hero!

She was a hero when she moved the satellite out of the way and saved the White House. But after the White House was saved, she purposefully destroyed the satellite--which was not heroic at all. Quite the opposite.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Got to love that liberal tolerance. Disagree with a liberal, and the nastiness begins.

Yes, that's exactly what's happening.

And that is wrong. Your rights end where someone else's begins. And what you are advocating for is use of brute force to impose your will on those that disagree with you. That's a dangerous line of thinking.

Ten guys try and beat a single guy to death, you are obligated to fight the ten guys. It's dangerous but all moral decisions are.

Yes--and not only have I, I know enough about it to know that one person imposing their will on millions without giving them any say inspired it. Which one was Supergirl?

It's a war crime to murder refugees so it was actually acting in the law.

You would make a great proponent of totalitarianism with this attitude. You clearly believe that the strong should impose their will on the weak, and that might makes right.

Actually, I believe right makes right. Obedience to evil is evil and the President is a cartoonishly evil monster.

Not respecting the laws of the people is wrong.

When the laws are unjust and you obey them, that is serving totalitarianism. You realize guys opposing the Soviet Union were the good guys, right?

Actually, Supergirl was acting more tyrannical than anyone in this episode. She unilaterally destroyed a satellite because she disagreed with the President. Anarchy is quite unAmerican.

Again, obeying evil is evil.

When you use the term Nazi to describe something completely different, you are not only wrong, you show a massive disrespect for those that actually died at the hands of the Nazis. And you diminish the true evil that they were. Nazi is not a term that means "disagree with a liberal."

I generally feel comfortable using the term Nazi to describe people who murder people of different races because they are of different races.

It is not the place of vigilantes to take the law into their own hands. Manchester Black attacked a military installation. Murdered US soldiers. And even if all he was doing was killing Children of Liberty, he is no better than they are. Arrests and due process are how you handle that, not mob rule.

Glad you think we should be serving King George.

Wrong. What you are describing is anarchy, not a representative democracy. You are advocating violence for every issue you do not agree with. The Children of Liberty are wrong, but so was Supergirl, and there is absolutely no ambiguity of that, other than the morality of the writers, who seem to have none.

No, I'm advocating violence against Nazis in a cartoon show where one side is a bunch of cartoon racists.

Impeach or vote him out, and that will be done by the people and Congress, not by some alien who wants to impose her decisions on others.

I think authority is derived solely from the pursuit and implication of moral ends.

If you believe that the United States is purely evil, you do not love your country. You also do not know its history.

I believe that anyone who obeys evil orders and authority doesn't know what the United States is about.

Edit:

Honestly, I think the Supergirl show is showing "both sides are wrong" which is a very centrist position and kind of annoys me. Certainly, they seem to be arguing the Elite are every bit as bad as the Children of Liberty. RL politics have nothing to do with TV shows most of the time sadly.

It's a story about alien hating bigots and the guys who oppose them.

I just really wish Supergirl did more against them.

 

[Christopher]

It is worth noting that the satellite was about to zap the White House into smithereens ala Independence Day. Supergirl saved the lives of the President and the entire White House staff. I would say she was being a hero!

Except she saved the White House without destroying the satellite, then she thought about it for a moment, and then she went back and destroyed the satellite anyway even after the threat had passed. She chose to destroy it. Then she dissembled to the President when he asked if she'd done exactly that.

Still, Baker ordering the satellite launched in secret, without Congressional approval and without consulting the DEO or others who should rightfully be involved in the decision, was legally and ethically questionable. The satellite should never have been launched in the first place. Frankly, I suspect that President Baker might be working with, or under the influence of, Lex Luthor. Maybe he's even been replaced by Lex Luthor in a high-tech disguise. So Supergirl's choice may be vindicated.

 

[Greg Cox]

Trivia: I liked the throwaway reference to Brainy’s friend “Val,” who is presumably Val Armorr, aka Karate Kid of the LSH. (No relation to the teen movie.)

Gotta wonder, though: What’s up with that Russian Supergirl double? Is that shoe EVER going to drop?

 

[Ovation]

Gotta wonder, though: What’s up with that Russian Supergirl double? Is that shoe EVER going to drop?

[Boris and Natasha]In Russia, shoe drops you. [/Boris and Natasha]

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Trivia: I liked the throwaway reference to Brainy’s friend “Val,” who is presumably his fellow Val Armorr, aka Karate Kid.

Good catch!

Gotta wonder, though: What’s up with that Russian Supergirl double? Is that shoe EVER going to drop?

There's so many irons in the fire that is the super-being arms race, that its difficult to tell how or when she will make her first strike, and who is the American help the Russians were talking abut contacting? Lex? Lena? Lillian? Haley, operating on a sideline project apart from the not-so-trustworthy Lena?

 

[Guy Gardener]

I think the Smith kids should be locked in a box until they turn 40, so they should still contact Ralph to play the part of the Karate Kid on Supergirl.

Although the poet William Zabka did some fine work on Youtube Red last year.

 

[David cgc]

Except she saved the White House without destroying the satellite, then she thought about it for a moment, and then she went back and destroyed the satellite anyway even after the threat had passed. She chose to destroy it. Then she dissembled to the President when he asked if she'd done exactly that.

Of course, he probably would've been just as upset if she'd left the hijacked satellite up there, cowering under his desk while yelling at her about why she thought it wouldn't just fire again, or move on to another government target once it recharged, so she was probably in a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation.

 

[Christopher]

Of course, he probably would've been just as upset if she'd left the hijacked satellite up there, cowering under his desk while yelling at her about why she thought it wouldn't just fire again, or move on to another government target once it recharged, so she was probably in a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation.

It's not like it had its own intelligence. It was aimed at the White House by the Elite, using the control systems at Devil's Tower. The "Super Friends" retook Devil's Tower, and presumably it's back in government hands now. So they would've presumably retaken control of it once that happened, if Supergirl hadn't destroyed it.

Then again, President Baker doesn't seem like a very smart person, so maybe he would've been angry either way.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Except she saved the White House without destroying the satellite, then she thought about it for a moment, and then she went back and destroyed the satellite anyway even after the threat had passed. She chose to destroy it. Then she dissembled to the President when he asked if she'd done exactly that.

Still, Baker ordering the satellite launched in secret, without Congressional approval and without consulting the DEO or others who should rightfully be involved in the decision, was legally and ethically questionable. The satellite should never have been launched in the first place. Frankly, I suspect that President Baker might be working with, or under the influence of, Lex Luthor. Maybe he's even been replaced by Lex Luthor in a high-tech disguise. So Supergirl's choice may be vindicated.

Kara can't be vindicated with post dated facts.

With the information on hand, she decided that illegal immigration was more important than protecting Earth from disease, supercrime and technology that would murder Earth's economy, because she assumed that approaching illegal immigrants wouldn't be verbally warned off, receive warning fire, and then maybe get stunned by a %10 charge from the Claymore gun, before a killing blow is considered.

Besides creating a strong border is the only possible way to cross legally, which is a big step towards legal immigration.

Claymore was a President Marsden project. There is no way that they started designing, sourcing and building that Goliath after she retied 6 months ago.

It's probably how she pushed through her Alien Amnesty bill, by giving the congracists who would have opposed it something that made them really-really happy.

 

[Jayson1]

Even if you ignore the part about the space gun shooting incoming space ships I think the rest of the worlds countries might take issue with America all of sudden having a big space gun that can be used against them. Wasn't this a big fear in the 80's with Reagan's STAR WARS stuff? Also I know it was a issue in fiction on "Stargate" when it came to other countries finding out about the Stargate program and in one episode where Daniel has gone mad because of the Harses child's knowledge and was building a space gun also.

With that said Kara was very wrong to destroy it. That's basically a act of war or terrorism and since she is a American citizen it's also treason. It's should be up to the voters to decide if they don't like that or for Congress maybe try and impeach the President because of it. The idea of Space gun in theory though isn't a bad idea. They have already been subjected to two alien invasions and Superman and Supergirl can both be killed or weakened with Krytonite or just flat out fail because even they aren't perfect. Putting all your eggs in the hands of two people for possible alien invasions is a bad idea.

Still I liked the episode. I like the debate it stirs even if the writers basically ignored some legit reasons to be both for and against a space gun. I do think Lex might be the President or have some influence over him. He started off kind of reasonable and you would expect Marsden to select someone better as Vice-President but all of sudden he is making secret space guns and shaking hands with terrrorist and even giving him a job.

Jason