Captain Marvel (2019)

[Awesome Possum]

How about this? We stick with talking about our own opinions rather than assuming that all white guys are racists and on and on and on.

Let's have a discussion about actual opinions rather than people who might have them. Otherwise, there is a whole lot of assumption going on that isn't doing anyone any good whatsoever. nor is it actually propagating good discussion.

Yeah no. I'm not going to dismiss sexism and abuse, especially after a lifetime of abuse. I see this exact same behavior over and over again. I've had the full force of the hate directed at me on a few occasions, I've been told everything from kill myself to actual death threats for the high crime of existing and having an opinion. By ignoring this, you're letting them get away with it and they'll only get worse.

 

[fireproof78]

Yeah no. I'm not going to dismiss sexism and abuse, especially after a lifetime of abuse. I see this exact same behavior over and over again. I've had the full force of the hate directed at me on a few occasions, I've been told everything from kill myself to actual death threats for the high crime of existing and having an opinion. By ignoring this, you're letting them get away with it and they'll only get worse.

Did I say dismiss it? No. I'm asking for actual civil discussion among forum members. All I'm seeing is broad strokes and little discussion, ad hominem and little productive discussion.

I won't dismiss it either but I would like discussion not broad paint brushes that silence discussion.

 

[Disco!Disco!]

Interesting you should use a Nostalgia Critic GIF. His review of A Wrinkle of Time illustrates what Larson said about 40 year-old white male critics and that movie.

There's a scene in the film where the main character is presented a version of herself with straightened hair. The Nostalgia Critic Did. Not. Get. It. At. All. The scene went right over his head. Like Larson said, it wasn't made for him.

 

[fireproof78]

Interesting you should use a Nostalgia Critic GIF. His review of A Wrinkle of Time illustrates what Larson said about 40 year-old white male critics and that movie.

There's a scene in the film where the main character is presented a version of herself with straightened hair. The Nostalgia Critic Did. Not. Get. It. At. All. The scene went right over his head. Like Larson said, it wasn't made for him.

Yes, that was deliberate. Because there is a lot of products that are not for everyone. I do not care for "Fight Club" or "Game of Thrones" but I don't begrudge them their existence.

The larger point that I am (apparently poorly) trying to make is can't we have an exchange of ideas here, without assuming everyone else's ill intent as part of this specific discussion?

I don't want to silence anyone! Just don't think the conversation is going anywhere helpful either, with a lot of broad strokes.

 

[Guy Gardener]

If the cat survives, is there any chance that it can feature next season on Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.?

 

[fireproof78]

I'll just be glad when the movie is out and becomes a massive hit so these idiots know they lost another one.

I will be glad about this too.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Yes, that was deliberate. Because there is a lot of products that are not for everyone. I do not care for "Fight Club" or "Game of Thrones" but I don't begrudge them their existence.

The larger point that I am (apparently poorly) trying to make is can't we have an exchange of ideas here, without assuming everyone else's ill intent as part of this specific discussion?

I don't want to silence anyone! Just don't think the conversation is going anywhere helpful either, with a lot of broad strokes.

Some people aren't debating in good faith. We're under no obligation to engage with them or even consider their opinions.

 

[fireproof78]

Some people aren't debating in good faith. We're under no obligation to engage with them or even consider their opinions.

Precisely. I'd rather have good faith debates, and not consider ones that are presented as not. And, I'd rather discuss with members here than bring ill will here.

I want discussion, and your perspective is better than mine. But, broad strokes, like @mos6507 that I quoted in my post are not helpful, at least in my mind.

All I want is good faith discussions. That's all.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Or maybe people should stop strawmanning and painting with a broad brush.

Then, stop engaging in them, stop using them.

 

[Thestral]

His review of A Wrinkle of Time illustrates what Larson said about 40 year-old white male critics and that movie.

There's a scene in the film where the main character is presented a version of herself with straightened hair. The Nostalgia Critic Did. Not. Get. It. At. All. The scene went right over his head. Like Larson said, it wasn't made for him.

Heh, when does that happen? On Camazotz facing IT I assume? I couldn't even bring myself to finish that movie. It's such a shame, the casting was mostly fantastic (especially Storm Reid and Chris Pine), the effects were excellent, and I love that whole series.

But they utterly butchered Charles Wallace, they introduced some stupidly obnoxious hatred between Meg and Mrs. Whatsit... and the whole thing with the Mrs. W's and their mission just seemed stripped of its... soul.

 

[Disco!Disco!]

when does that happen? On Camazotz facing IT I assume?

Here's an article on it:
https://www.vulture.com/2018/03/ava-duvernay-on-megs-natural-hair-in-a-wrinkle-in-time.html

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Or maybe people should stop strawmanning and painting with a broad brush.



It's subjective. That's my whole point. It's not your right to judge whether someone else should feel outraged or not. Stop presuming you speak for the left-leaning moral-majority.

I mean, I could point you to a dozen articles on The Mary Sue where they go off on a tear about male gaze or the bechdel test as if it's the end of the world. I can't relate to that, but if I were to mock it, then it's just the flipside of your argument. It's...SUBJECTIVE.

Either you accept that people get upset at different things or you're going to try to force your measuring stick on everyone else. The forcing aspect is the thought-police aspect, the fundamentalism, and is the fuel upon which these dumpster fires burn. The lack of self-reflection here is staggering (and lack of empathy, to coin a Star Trek Discovery catch-phrase). Or maybe more importantly, some people just thrive on drama in general as a form of entertainment, so the more this stuff rages onward, the better.

But a thread of like this doesn't go 82+ pages for no reason. I mean, sheesh, it might as well be a debate between Israelis and Palestinians, it's do damn intractable.

It's subjective whether someone should feel offended that a woman wants more job opportunities for people who are being denied opportunities because they're not white men?

Brie didn't say anything offensive. In fact, she explicitly clarified that she wasn't hating on white men or attacking them or anything of the kind and yet here we still are debating how 'offensive' she was to white men. Claiming that this is just 'subjective responses' that people have the right to express without being contradicted is like claiming that it's perfectly reasonable for a muscle car lover to feel insulted because someone said electric cars are good for the environment. It's an idiotic response which bears no relationship to reality.

 

[Reverend]

Who remembers magic eye posters?

https://mobile.twitter.com/Marvel/status/1101256279262081024

Let's see how I remember how to do these . . . OK: 1) Mohawk Carol, 2) floaty trench-coat wearing person, 3) a pair of aviators, 4) A Skrull, & 5) The star of Halla/stripes logo thing.

So wait, is Coulson Goose? Is that where they're going with this?

Did I say dismiss it? No. I'm asking for actual civil discussion among forum members. All I'm seeing is broad strokes and little discussion, ad hominem and little productive discussion.

I won't dismiss it either but I would like discussion not broad paint brushes that silence discussion.

Unfortunately you really can't have civil discussions with bad faith actors. It's kinda like that whole "playing chess with a pigeon" metaphor. Best to just shoo them away.

 

[BillJ]

I made a joke at his expense, but now I will defend him. His point was that people have every right to be offended at anything. It's obviously a point that's hard to argue against.

They have every right to be offended, the public has the right to decide whether their complaint has any kind of merit, and react accordingly.

 

[Thestral]

Here's an article on it:
https://www.vulture.com/2018/03/ava-duvernay-on-megs-natural-hair-in-a-wrinkle-in-time.html

Nice! The natural hair insecurity was something I thought was a great update from L'Engle's book.

 

[Anwar]

Heh, when does that happen? On Camazotz facing IT I assume? I couldn't even bring myself to finish that movie. It's such a shame, the casting was mostly fantastic (especially Storm Reid and Chris Pine), the effects were excellent, and I love that whole series.

But they utterly butchered Charles Wallace, they introduced some stupidly obnoxious hatred between Meg and Mrs. Whatsit... and the whole thing with the Mrs. W's and their mission just seemed stripped of its... soul.

The big problem is that Wrinkle In Time is the prototypical YA Novel that so many others have taken from over the years so it didn't have as much of an impact in todays' environment. And what would have made it stand out more, the Christian stuff, was taken out.

 

[ichab]

Not sure why gender is an issue here. Kill Bill, the Alien franchise, Charlie's Angels, Halloween franchise, Horror in general actually, all had strong female leads who carried the film. We just had Wonder Woman recently so it's not even the first female superhero film. There's no new ground being covered here other than Marvel finally getting with the program. One side needs to get over it, while the other needs to stop trying to turn every entertainment property into some social crusade. It's just a movie. Nothing more.

 

[Anwar]

Not sure why gender is an issue here. Kill Bill, the Alien franchise, Charlie's Angels, Halloween franchise, Horror in general actually, all had strong female leads who carried the film. We just had Wonder Woman recently so it's not even the first female superhero film. There's no new ground being covered here other than Marvel finally getting with the program. One side needs to get over it, while the other needs to stop trying to turn every entertainment property into some social crusade. It's just a movie. Nothing more.

The problem is that the fandom seems to think she's being set up as some last minute savior (no evidence), they don't like that she's been called the most powerful hero thus far (they never complained about Thor), they don't like that she's going to be the "face" of the MCU going forward (she's clearly going to share that with Spidey and Black Panther), they don't like Brie Larson (RDJ and Chris Evans got this too, now look at how beloved they are) and Carol Danvers is somewhat divisive in the comics (so was Iron Man!).

 

[Gov Kodos]

Not sure why gender is an issue here. Kill Bill, the Alien franchise, Charlie's Angels, Halloween franchise, Horror in general actually, all had strong female leads who carried the film. We just had Wonder Woman recently so it's not even the first female superhero film. There's no new ground being covered here other than Marvel finally getting with the program. One side needs to get over it, while the other needs to stop trying to turn every entertainment property into some social crusade. It's just a movie. Nothing more.

Denigration, how typical of privilege.

 

[Mudd]

They have every right to be offended, the public has the right to decide whether their complaint has any kind of merit, and react accordingly.

Isn't the right to be offended enshrined in the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights?