THE ORVILLE S2, E7: "DEFLECTORS"

[eschaton]

"City On The Edge Of Forever."

I'm not sure it counts as a tragedy in the classic sense despite the tragic ending. I say this because even though the outcome was personally painful for Kirk, he ultimately made the right decision. Most dramatic tragedies are wrapped around the main characters making the wrong decisions - even if they seem justified at the time.

 

[Phoenix219]

I have to agree. I love Stamets and Culber on Discovery - the inclusion of gay characters in Star Trek was long overdue - but the way NV seemed to be trying all at once to make up for several decades' worth of a serious lack of LGBT representation felt a little strange/forced.

Anyway, Klyden is a p.o.s. But once he was revealed as the killer and there were like fifteen minutes left in the episode, I mostly managed to figure out what had really happened, though I didn't guess that Lokar was actually still alive.

Yeah, I thought he killed himself, but blamed Klyden to protect his family and get revenge.

 

[Phoenix219]

I forgot to mention it in my other post, but I did wonder when the test of the deflectors started if it was going to turn out Lokar was sabotaging the ship and the battle was going to be real. I got especially suspicious when the Moclans fired the torpedo at them.
One other thing I thought was interesting was how similar the shape of the Moclan was to The Orville. Kind of makes wonder if the Moclans had some influence on the design of the Union Fleet ships.

It's the 25th century..... Mochlan influence led to the going-out-of-style of the classic Union nacelle engines.

 

[The Wormhole]

Pretty good episode. Interesting inversion, with the straight guy being persecuted by a society in which gay people are dominant. And we further explore Moclan culture and how messed up it is. I like the dark turn for Klyden. For a character used quite frequently for comic relief, it's impressive that when he does get used in a serious sense, it's always so dark and twisted. I did have it figured out way too quickly Lokar wasn't really dead.

A good showcase for Talla and I really could not imagine this storyline working with Alara. Also interesting that Talla comes from an outlier family for Xeleyans, one where serving in the military is actually a family tradition.

I really liked the end, Talla doing what is technically the right thing, even though it is also wrong, and she hates herself for it, or rather hates Klyden for making it happen.

 

[Mudd]

I'm not sure it counts as a tragedy in the classic sense despite the tragic ending. I say this because even though the outcome was personally painful for Kirk, he ultimately made the right decision. Most dramatic tragedies are wrapped around the main characters making the wrong decisions - even if they seem justified at the time.

So, who made the wrong decision, here? I'd assume Lokar? Certainly not Klyden, who is just a narrow-minded supporting character, a heavy. It's Julius Caesar, not Cassius; it's Othello and not Iago.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Yeah, that was a nice tidbit we got on Talia's backstory. I wonder if that means that Talia's whole family is considered unintelligent on Xeleya since they are all in the military? Talia's family is clearly not the academic elites that Alara's family is.

I think she called her family a bunch of black sheep on the planet. However, Bioshock pointed out that every society needs have's and have's less (whether it be in money, social currency, prestige, or whatnot). There has to be someone who cleans the toilets basically. In this case, we knew Xeleyan society needed its own cops, grunts, and non-brains.

I also should point out that I think Alara would have been a less effective choice for this episode as Bortus is her close friend and she's not the relative outsider to the crew's social circle. This is where their characters are starting to diverge and I like it.

One thing my wife commented on is that Talia feels like someone who is used to being socially gregarious and close with her crew but because she's stepped into someone else's shoes has been kept a bit at arms length, so the meeting with Mercer is colder than he is with any other crew member--something that slightly annoys her. She's getting along better with Kelly, which almost no one does.

Good acting choices there.

 

[Charles Phipps]

It's not dated though. There are still countries where it's the official law that gay people get put into prison or even killed. It's very recent.

That's actually the most interesting bit of social commentary that is being made there. The Moclans being allies of the Union as well as full members isn't something that is in question: they seem to be solid allies and good neighbors. However, they're very clearly possessed of laws that would be considered crimes against humanity and against any civilized society in this time let alone the 25th century.

That's a thing the United States has been called out for with some of its allies many times.

So, who made the wrong decision, here? I'd assume Lokar? Certainly not Klyden, who is just a narrow-minded supporting character, a heavy. It's Julius Caesar, not Cassius; it's Othello and not Iago.

I'd argue this is more like King Lear in the sense that we know that something is building up to a train wreck. I am not going to be surprised, again, if Bortus is going to be forced to kill Klyden at some point

Imagine, for example, if their child wants to be female again?

What if Klyden has the right to kill such a child by Moclan law?

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Orville is repeating itself.

The manatees came back with the "The Outcast" ball this week. But did it in a way that retreads themes Orville has done to death already.

 

[Graham]

While there have been a lot of great episodes this season, they are not at all what I was expecting from the way they promoted it. They kept going on about how much bigger and more epic this season was going to be, but so far the majority of them have been quiter, more subtle character based stories. Which is not a bad thing, it just almost feels a bit like false advertising.

It's just a feeling, but I suspect they're building to something.

 

[Phoenix219]

That's actually the most interesting bit of social commentary that is being made there. The Moclans being allies of the Union as well as full members isn't something that is in question: they seem to be solid allies and good neighbors. However, they're very clearly possessed of laws that would be considered crimes against humanity and against any civilized society in this time let alone the 25th century.

That's a thing the United States has been called out for with some of its allies many times.



I'd argue this is more like King Lear in the sense that we know that something is building up to a train wreck. I am not going to be surprised, again, if Bortus is going to be forced to kill Klyden at some point

Imagine, for example, if their child wants to be female again?

What if Klyden has the right to kill such a child by Moclan law?

ignoring the social commentary aspect, and just centering on Mochlan culture and history, I can't help but wonder...

There are forbidden females, and there are forbidden people that like the females. It makes me wonder if at one time their culture actually did use more traditional pairings, and during a period of catastrophe and hard times, this was all changed, with mutation or eugenics involved to keep the species viable.

If they did not persecute any of their citizens, before long a heterosexual dual gendered offshoot of their race would develop..... That scares them, especially since their traditions are what saved and preserved their way of life.

 

[The Wormhole]

Imagine, for example, if their child wants to be female again?

What if Klyden has the right to kill such a child by Moclan law?

I don't think Moclan law would permit Klyden to kill Topa. More likely he'd be required to turn Topa over to Moclan authorities, so they may deal with Topa as they see fit. Just as he was planning to do with Lokar.

 

[Charles Phipps]

I don't think Moclan law would permit Klyden to kill Topa. More likely he'd be required to turn Topa over to Moclan authorities, so they may deal with Topa as they see fit. Just as he was planning to do with Lokar.

Thank you for that opening because it actually gets to what I was trying to say better than I did.

Depending on the penalty for heterosexuality, Klyden murdering Lokar vs, turning him over to the Moclan Cultural Police may actually be a distinction without a difference. At the end of the day, giving up someone to them versus killing them yourself could be the same result.

The same might be the case for their child.

 

[Nakita Akita]

Thank you for that opening because it actually gets to what I was trying to say better than I did.

Depending on the penalty for heterosexuality, Klyden murdering Lokar vs, turning him over to the Moclan Cultural Police may actually be a distinction without a difference. At the end of the day, giving up someone to them versus killing them yourself could be the same result.

The same might be the case for their child.

I don't think their society is set up like that.
I think the law was that the "weird" people needed to be turned over to the authorities.

You can't have a society wher if a person thinks the other person is an "A" you can kill them.
How many times do you think the other person doing the murder could be mistaken?

The Moclan society may seem harsh but people running around killing one another would be insane.

 

[Charles Phipps]

I don't think their society is set up like that.
I think the law was that the "weird" people needed to be turned over to the authorities.

You can't have a society wher if a person thinks the other person is an "A" you can kill them.
How many times do you think the other person doing the murder could be mistaken?

The Moclan society may seem harsh but people running around killing one another would be insane.

Except divorce is done by whichever partner wants to murder the other first.

Remember, they're our Klingons.

 

[Graham]

Yeah, I was wondering why they didn't do simulated hits instead of real ones. Surely, the computer could simulate hits and calculate the effect on the new deflector configuration?

And how do you ensure that the computer simulation works in reality? Sooner or later, you have to try it out for real.

 

[JD]

I think she called her family a bunch of black sheep on the planet. However, Bioshock pointed out that every society needs have's and have's less (whether it be in money, social currency, prestige, or whatnot). There has to be someone who cleans the toilets basically. In this case, we knew Xeleyan society needed its own cops, grunts, and non-brains.

This reminds of something I've been meaning to ask. Are the Xelayans members of the Union? We know they look down on the miliatary, but what about the other aspects of the Union?

 

[Charles Phipps]

This reminds of something I've been meaning to ask. Are the Xelayans members of the Union? We know they look down on the miliatary, but what about the other aspects of the Union?

I think they are but generally they produce science officers.

The Moclans are our Klingons (allies) to the Krill as Romulans (enemies).

The Xelayans are our Vulcans (split with Isaac's people).

 

[tomalak301]

TALIA: I mean, this has to be the most insane thing that's ever happened on this ship.

JOHN: One time I almost died 'cause I humped a statue.

GORDON: Isaac once cut my leg off.

JOHN: The captain and commander, they got put in a zoo.

GORDON: And Bortus almost crashed the ship 'cause of porn.

TALIA: I see.

That’s a good selling point for the series.

 

[Nakita Akita]

Except divorce is done by whichever partner wants to murder the other first.

Remember, they're our Klingons.

But who among us hasn't wanted to murder a family member?

But actually murdering someone and wanting to murder them is two different things.

 

[Mudd]

And how do you ensure that the computer simulation works in reality? Sooner or later, you have to try it out for real.

They had some rules in place that were supposed to reduce risk - "We said no torpedoes!"