Just how old is Capt Pike? (based on 1 line in Saints of Imperfection)

I outright said in my post, which was edited out of your quote, that a line like "We served together at the Battle of Donatu 5" (my actual post cited the Desperate Hours novel) could just as easily have served that intent.

 

Exactly.

There's a reason Spider-Man's aunt doesn't look a crone anymore.

 

We need Aunt May to look like an old lady! Green Goblin looks so much more evil when he's kidnapping and terrifying old ladies.

I think we should demand that from now on that the catchphrase is "We met at Sisko's Creole Kitchen."

 

The Mendez age statement was a Talosian goof, relaying their memory of Pike 13 years ago. This is a fakeMendez all the time Kirk first met him at starbase.

 

So Mendez was never seen in the episode?

 

Of course it couldn't, because there's a huge difference between having met someone briefly and really knowing them well. For a story like this, you want someone who's close to the person in question, someone who can't be fooled by an impostor the way a more casual acquaintance could -- and more importantly, someone who would have a greater emotional stake in the matter, who'd feel it more keenly upon learning that his old friend was dead and an evil twin had taken her place. Because stories are not about dates and numbers, they're about feelings.

 

Going by what you say, Pike is going to be judging his entire deduction based on 30 year old memories (2220-2224 compared to 2257). People change so much in 30 years. It makes far more sense to be basing a serious accusation (calling someone an impostor) over more recent work experience than 30 year old college memories.

If Pike has indeed been keeping up with Georgiou, then my idea of recent service together fits and the Academy line is still unnecessary. If you are going to base Pike's presumed deduction of the deception entirely on his 30 year old memories...

That would be like comparing arrogant, reckless jerk cadet Picard (as shown in Tapestry) with the play it safe Picard we saw in TNG, and an academy classmate calling TNG Picard an impostor because of the dissonance.

 

As far as an older Georgiou hanging out with a younger Pike, I can remember several times over the age of 30 where I could outdrink my college friends, 22 and below. That changed real quick at 34 and now I get a headache from two beers and I hate it, lol.

 

Except there's no way an Academy Georgiou was older than Pike going by her personnel file revealed onscreen. Unless like @lawman said she went back to take classes as an officer for some reason and that wasn't on her personnel file.

 

There are two Pikes: Christopher Pike, Sr. and Christopher Pike, Jr.

Pike Sr. was born circa 2202 and is played by Mount in the Prime Universe and Greenwood in the Kelvin Timeline.

Pike Jr. was born circa 2220 and is played by Hunter in his only appearance in the Prime Universe.

Pike Sr. went to the Academy with Georgiou and we saw much of his record a couple episodes ago which included a stint as XO under April and official CO of the Enterprise between 2250 and at least until 2257. We don't know his ultimate fate.

Pike Jr. probably went to the Academy in the 2240s and was a junior officer, possibly XO (per rank braid) in 2254 when he was placed in temporary command of the Enterprise before Rigel VII and Talos IV. Pike Sr. was probably on Cardassia or something at the time. Pike Jr. does serve on the Enterprise in some capacity for 11+ years, and eventually reaches the position of Fleet Captain and hands the ship over to Kirk and then gets himself paralyzed and Talosized.

I mean, I don't believe any of this, and it's throwing all intent out the window, but why not?

 

Mirror Lorca is able to fool countless people who knew the original Lorca right up to his passage to the Mirror universe, yet somehow we are to believe Pike is going to deduce Mirror Georgiou is an impostor solely from 30 year old memories of the original?

That would be like comparing arrogant, reckless jerk cadet Picard (as shown in Tapestry) with the play it safe Picard we saw in TNG, and an academy classmate calling TNG Picard an impostor because of the dissonance.

Intent was already thrown out the window with Discovery. Show the Cage to anyone and then tell them the captain is 52 years old and the same age as the doctor.

 

He isn't 52 in the Cage, he isn't older than 50 in DSC.

 

I'm confused by this thread a little bit, are we upset that he is older or are we upset that he is younger?

 

I'm upset they made him older. To summarize, Pike said Georgiou "drank us all under the table and knew all regulations by Week 2" at the Academy, basically saying they were Academy classmates.

Georgiou is confirmed onscreen as being born in 2202, and going to the Academy in 2220-2224 in her onscreen personnel file.

Before now, grey hair in Kelvinverse Pike aside, we have assumed Pike was born in 2219 and was 35 in The Cage (2254), to roughly match up with Jeffrey Hunter's age of 38 in that episode. There was also a dodgy line in TOS implying that Pike was roughly Kirk's age of 34 when Pike ran the Enterprise. (Dodgy in that the line was said in 2267 about Pike's age in 2254, and it wasn't clear what year Mendez was referring to when he said Pike was roughly Kirk's age).

Regardless, mid-30s Pike as of the Cage was an accepted idea until yesterday's episode.

Now however, for Pike to be Georgiou's classmate, he would have to have been born in 2202 also, and thus be 52 in The Cage.

Thus, we're upset that Discovery is saying Pike was 52 years old in the Cage, even though Jeffrey Hunter looks way younger than that.

So I and others are upset that Discovery made Pike 17 years older. As you can see on this thread, some here like the idea of him being older. Thus the debate. Hope that clarifies the discussion a bit.

 

I have an amazing thought: Read-Outs shouldn't be taken literally. They're just filling up a screen with nonsense.

 

And we haven't even gotten to the Discovery restorations decades in the future when they change them. (Our 2019 low budget special effects won't fly for future audiences).

 

Maybe Pike is ultra paranoid and that's intro line when he meets people, just to see if they're imposters.

"Philippa drank us all under the table and knew all regulations by Week 2".
"Spock drank us all under the table and knew all regulations by Week 2".
"Kor drank us all under the table and knew all regulations by Week 2".
"The Keeper drank us all under the table and knew all regulations by Week 2".

If they let it slide, he's on to them!

 

Probably didn't have a choice since he is listed as one of the five greatest captains in Starfleet history in season one.

 

That was extremely clarifying, thanks! I'd prefer a younger Pike myself, but can't we like compromise by saying that Pike is in his 40s, entered the academy early, Georgiou went back for extended studies, and that onscreen readouts in Star Trek are questionable at best? That seems to cover all bases, lol.

I do, however, feel that having them be academy buddies serves the story better as he suspects Georgiou, even 30 years later, than it does just have him suspect her based on reputation and recent events. It'd be one thing if someone ridiculously said Picard was a fake because he's more rational in his old age vs a hot head in his youth, but it's different when someone who was clearly a *good guy* has now become someone that might be a *bad guy*. If Picard had joined Section 31 after TNG and presented himself the way Georgiou does, of course I would have thought he was an imposter! I mean, she basically winks at the camera as she bats her eyelashes and introduces herself as '"retired" captain'. Shit, I want her to use air quotes next time too.

 

Bestplanation I've seen all thread!