Dune 2018 (19,20,21...)

[The Nth Doctor]

Here's a concept I've been working on: how about we don't pander to narrow minded morons who throw hissy fits every time the universe refuses to conform to their ignorant preconceptions?
Just a thought....

Exactly so. Let's trust the audience to actually understand the complex issues that will play out in the story.

And while we're having thoughts, here's another one: how many of these people do you expect to show up to a cerebral, hard sci-fi movie directed by a very artsy director with a tendency to go for slow burn, introspective, avant-garde storytelling?

Yup, that, too. After all, this is coming from the same guy who directed highly cerebral films like Enemy, Arrival, and Blade Runner 2049.

 

[HugeLobes]

Obi-Wan Kenobi?

Good point. He mentions jihads like a thousand times.

Here's a concept I've been working on: how about we don't pander to narrow minded morons who throw hissy fits every time the universe refuses to conform to their ignorant preconceptions?
Just a thought....

And while we're having thoughts, here's another one: how many of these people do you expect to show up to a cerebral, hard sci-fi movie directed by a very artsy director with a tendency to go for slow burn, introspective, avant-garde storytelling?

I think you're overplaying how 'cerebral' this movie will be. It's going to be a major motion picture, not some arthouse movie you only see in select theatres.

Sorry, but does anyone else watch the news? Jihadism has become real thing over the last couple of decades. People are killed all the time by people labelled (by themselves or the media) as jihadists. I'm not saying the word should or shouldn't be taken out of the film, but to malign anyone who might have a problem with it as 'narrow minded morons who throw hissy fits every time the universe refuses to confirm to their ignorant preconceptions' isn't fair.

 

[Reverend]

I think you're overplaying how 'cerebral' this movie will be. It's going to be a major motion picture, not some arthouse movie you only see in select theatres.

I refer you to the director's filmography to date.

If you think Dune is just a "Lion King With Sandworms" spectacle movie, then you clearly don't have a firm grasp of the material.

I'm not saying the word should or shouldn't be taken out of the film, but to malign anyone who might have a problem with it as 'narrow minded morons who throw hissy fits every time the universe refuses to confirm to their ignorant preconceptions' isn't fair.

It's entirely fair if said people can't grasp nuanced topics and the importance of context when applied to narrative story telling. Nobody ever made a good movie by catering to the wilfully stupid.

 

[HugeLobes]

If you think Dune is just a "Lion King With Sandworms" spectacle movie, then you clearly don't have a firm grasp of the material.

You understand Dune isn't some high literary work, right? I get the impression it might just be the hardest book you've read. As for not being 'Lion King with Sandworms', yeah okay, did I ever say it's going to be some kind of dumb popcorn movie? No. Why are you leaping from 'not some arthouse movie you only see in select theatres' to 'just a "Lion King With Sandworms" spectacle movie'?

Dune is still going to be launched as a blockbuster. It's not some kind of high-brow intellectual film. What we're going to get is a smart sci-fi movie that's still meant for wider audiences, just like the new Blade Runner.

It's entirely fair if said people can't grasp nuanced topics and the importance of context when applied to narrative story telling. Nobody ever made a good movie by catering to the wilfully stupid.

Again, do you not watch the news? Like it or not, the way people think about the word 'jihad' has changed significantly since Dune was released. It's not some silly little issue.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

You understand Dune isn't some high literary work, right?

um wut

 

[fireproof78]

You understand Dune isn't some high literary work, right? I get the impression it might just be the hardest book you've read.

First of all, yes it is. Secondly, no need to be condescending.

Finally, there is a way to make a blockbuster style with the art house style in mind. There is a place for balance between the two.

Finally, if a person is going to have a negative reaction to "jihad" that's going to happen regardless of the context. Taking away from the original work strikes me as a poor adaptation, at best. Let's have more faith in the audience than just the knee jerk reaction crowd.

 

[Takeru]

Before people get concerned about use of the word Jihad shouldn't we wait if the movies even get there? Paul's Jihad happened after the first book so it's not an issue for the first two movies (if two movies for the first book is still the plan) and the Butlerian Jihad is only mentioned in passing and is a thing of the past anyway, so even if the audience perceives it as negative it's just a bad thing in the past the character's talk about.

 

[Reverend]

You understand Dune isn't some high literary work, right?

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

The spirit of Bill Maher lives.

 

[The Wormhole]

Good point. He mentions jihads like a thousand times.

It actually is a good point. Just look at the "movies described badly" description for Star Wars. "An elderly man in the desert indoctrinates a young man into his religion. The young man then joins a terrorist force and destroys a major government facility, resulting in the deaths of thousands government workers and military personnel."

 

[fireproof78]

It actually is a good point. Just look at the "movies described badly" description for Star Wars. "An elderly man in the desert indoctrinates a young man into his religion. The young man then joins a terrorist force and destroys a major government facility, resulting in the deaths of thousands government workers and military personnel."

Star Wars is about terrorists.

 

[JD]

Before people get concerned about use of the word Jihad shouldn't we wait if the movies even get there? Paul's Jihad happened after the first book so it's not an issue for the first two movies (if two movies for the first book is still the plan) and the Butlerian Jihad is only mentioned in passing and is a thing of the past anyway, so even if the audience perceives it as negative it's just a bad thing in the past the character's talk about.

Really? I could have sworn they talked about it in the later part of the first book.
Why is just changing this one word such a huge problem? Is there some way that this ties specifically into the exact definition of jihad that there is no possible way to change it and keep the story in tact?
I don't really see what harm there is in just changing a word that has taken on a very different context for people since the story was originally written.

 

[Takeru]

Really? I could have sworn they talked about it in the later part of the first book.

I don't remember if they talk about it but the point is the jihad itself doesn't happen in the novel so there's no need to bring it up in the movie adaptation.
I'm not even against changing it, I just don't think it's something they have to worry about now, it doesn't become relevant until Dune Messiah.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Star Wars is about terrorists.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Killing the innocent is indefensible, even collaterally. Luke is probably responsible for vapourising the canteen staff on the Death Star, including Mr Stevens.

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[The Borgified Corpse]

If you think Dune is just a "Lion King With Sandworms" spectacle movie, then you clearly don't have a firm grasp of the material.

While the story is certainly much more dense & complex than such a pithy logline would imply, I think that there is a portion of the audience who will need the movie to be pitched to them at the level of "Lion King with Sandworms" in order to get them to show up. Given how expensive this movie is likely to be, having as wide an appeal as possible is essential.

Still, I'm kinda wondering if there isn't a ceiling to how well an artsy Villeneuve sci-fi movie can do financially. Arrival made about $203 million off of a $47 million budget. For Blade Runner 2049, they tripled the budget but only saw a 28% increase in box office.

 

[HugeLobes]

First of all, yes it is.

Jesus Christ, you guys actually believe that... My eyes have been opened. Maybe read some Saul Bellow, Marcel Proust, John Barth, Vladimir Nabokov, Virginia Woolf, Thomas Pynchon... I'm not saying Dune isn't good, and it's certainly the best sci-fi novel I've ever read, but in no way is it a work of high literature.

Finally, there is a way to make a blockbuster style with the art house style in mind. There is a place for balance between the two.

Thanks, that's exactly what I said...

It actually is a good point. Just look at the "movies described badly" description for Star Wars. "An elderly man in the desert indoctrinates a young man into his religion. The young man then joins a terrorist force and destroys a major government facility, resulting in the deaths of thousands government workers and military personnel."

Except we were talking about the use of the word 'jihad', weren't we?

Secondly, no need to be condescending.

And yet when people are condescending to me...

 

[fireproof78]

Jesus Christ, you guys actually believe that... My eyes have been opened. Maybe read some Saul Bellow, Marcel Proust, John Barth, Vladimir Nabokov, Virginia Woolf, Thomas Pynchon... I'm not saying Dune isn't good, and it's certainly the best sci-fi novel I've ever read, but in no way is it a work of high literature.

I have. And?

And yet when people are condescending to me...

Implying that Dune is the hardest book someone has ever read is a lit extreme to my mind.

 

[HugeLobes]

I have. And?

The point was made.

Implying that Dune is the hardest book someone has ever read is a lit extreme to my mind.

All the times I was snidely told I didn't get Dune? Yeah, that's fine.

 

[fireproof78]

All the times I was snidely told I didn't get Dune? Yeah, that's fine.

No, it's not. But, since I don't read every post in the thread I suppose that's on me for not calling it out.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Would someone please define "a work of high literature" objectively, together with suitable metrics for measuring this, rather than trotting out the collective perceived wisdom of a bunch of snooty academics or critics.

I read novels for entertainment and to gain insight into what might motivate other people from different backgrounds, not to pass Eng Lit exams. I trained as a scientist so I grant that my brain isn't attuned to extracting the fine nuances of the human condition from "high(brow) literature", just as the typical Eng Lit student isn't trained to understand advanced calculus.