Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x03 - "Point of Light"

[Nerys Myk]

Ridiculous.

That pretty much sums up Ex-Astris' opinion on anything.

 

[Vger23]

Maybe people should stop using "canon" when they mean continuity and stop using violation when they mean "changes I don't like".

 

[rhllot]

I like section 31 but I do not want the federation to be secretly a totalitarian state controlled by an artificial intelligence that is almost god.
I did not like the control of the novels as a concept! also was very cliche! the artificial intelligence that controls humanity is boring !!
I hope that control canon is the high command of section 31 composed of a group of real people!

 

[Nerys Myk]

Of course not, but Amanda is afraid it is.

Which is a different thing.

 

[captainkirk]

One of the biggest problems I have with DSC is how almost no one is allowed to be simple and straight-forward. Everyone has to be so overly complicated.

Lorca was from the Mirror-universe, pretending to be Prime-Lorca, who then pretends to be Mirror-Lorca. Burnham had her parents killed by Klingons and was adopted by Sarek, and was then the reason the family was so dysfunctional. Georgiou was a captain killed by Klingons, and then replaced by her MU doppelganger, who is now pretending to be Prime-Georgiou, and becomes a Section 31 agent. Tyler was also killed by Klingons, but then had his memories implanted into a Klingon body, which was altered to look human, then had his Klingon memories removed, and becomes a section 31 agent.

See what I mean? Now even Tilly and Stamets have their own complicated storyline involving the fungus blob and dead people from their past. At least, for now, Pike and Saru are exactly who they say they are, without anything extra.

 

[Tuskin38]

I like section 31 but I do not want the federation to be secretly a totalitarian state controlled by an artificial intelligence that is almost god.
I did not like the control of the novels as a concept! also was very cliche! the artificial intelligence that controls humanity is boring !!
I hope that control canon is the high command of section 31 composed of a group of real people!

You'll be happy then.

 

[JD]

For anyone who has read the novel Section 31: Control, but doesn't go to the Trek Literature section of the boards, David Mack has said that the reference to Control, was not a reference to the novel.

 

[Tuskin38]

Besides, wasn't the name Control in that novel a reference to something else itself?

 

[shapeshifter]

I am sick of cardboard cut out characters in Trek. Long live Discovery!

And I am sick of all the self proclaimed professional critics inhabiting the internet that know how to discern weaknesses in filmed entertainment but have completely forgotten, (or never known) how to simply watch something for the fun IN it! Long live Discovery!

 

[plynch]

One of the biggest problems I have with DSC is how almost no one is allowed to be simple and straight-forward. Everyone has to be so overly complicated.
. . . Pike and Saru are exactly who they say they are, without anything extra.

And they're the best characters, by far. Maybe that's why.

Far, far above in this thread, I decried this present culture's need to EXPLAIN everything. "Spock is the way he is because mommy issues." I'll add "make things complex" to my rant list. Cuz you're right. The damn plot/arc itself is SOOO mysterious/complicated. Again! I hate it. This ep had 2! puzzle box plots and one treachery/machinations plot. 3 total, all murky PLUS the empress and s31. Oy. Please.

Recently I've been reading how the Prius and Pickup tribes not only have different worldviews/opinions about, like, everything, they truly cannot fathom how someone of the other tribe can POSSIBLY think/feel as they do. That other fool is stupid or racist or traitorous or whatever. I'm not that way in politics, but I am, re. media, I guess: I just truly cannot fathom how you, O liker of this episode, can like it.

(But as always, like it if you like it -- I am confessing my fault -- my inability to conceive or think broadly. Cuz, to me, it is just . . . bad; horrible bad. I gave it a 2. I had such hope after last ep. Someone please tell me ep3 is from the Gretchen/Aaron yelling-producers regime.

- yours in confusion

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

I'm getting the feeling that Section 31 as we see it in DSC and its backdoor piloting of a Section 31 show are purposefully meant to set up how bad and wrong Section 31 is to eventually be brought down and reduced in audacity to the levels we see in later series. I wholeheartedly believe that the first season of Section 31 will be about Georgiou kicking ass as a ruthless agent, building up to her being disillusioned by the organization, and then actively bring it down from the inside making Section 31 the overall antagonist and her a sort of hero I guess? Not sure how I feel about giving her a redemption arc or anything...I like liking her as a bad person and watching her destroy Section 31 as a relative good guy. I really, really doubt the show is just going to be about the super top-secret secret-service of the Federation that just DGAF about rules, infiltrating alien societies and hurting civilians for the greater good. For everyone that feels like 'Section 31' doesn't belong in Star Trek, it might be a nice way to really prove that by making a whole damn show about bringing it down. It's gonna be awesome.

 

[Tuskin38]

Yeah nothing so far has said Section 31 are going to be the good guys, in fact the trailers have given the impression they are bad.

 

[137th Gebirg]

As an organization, they are neither good nor bad. Morally flexible and ambiguous. Ends justify the means. On an individual basis, however, there may be a more colorful spectrum of motives.

 

[Michael]

Ugh, after I really liked the season premiere and thought “New Eden” was interesting, “Point of Light” reminds me of everything I didn't like about season one. Unfortunately, we're right back to stupid. I hope this was only a fluke and the season will be back to the new normal of episode one and two next week. As it stands, this was definitely one of the lowest points of the show thus far.

I enjoyed the Amanda/Michael scenes and loved Mary Wiseman's acting in that scene where she breaks down (seriously, at this point she feels like the strongest cast member), but why do the writer's think Klingon politics are so goddamn interesting? What also would have helped was if the trailers for this episode (and the season, IIRC) hadn't spoilt the whole Georgiou reveal at the end.

Worst episode of the season so far. I really wish they'd stop with the Klingon politics crap. And the less said about Section 31, the better – it plays like an edgelord teenager's idea of what a "cool" spy agency is like.

I might have enjoyed the shipboard stuff more if any of it had been a complete story. We got to the major development in the Tilly/spore storyline and then it just...stopped. When the closing credits rolled, I was genuinely surprised the episode was over because nothing felt like an ending.

I felt exactly the same when the episode ended. Felt really weird that the Tilly storyline ended where it did. I guess I could be more forgiving if they would release those episodes as a complete season at the same date, so that people could binge watch them. But the way it is now the episode feels really weirdly plotted.

Yeah, that's another element this week that just rankles. I accepted, even enjoyed, Section 31 in DS9 when it looked like the Starfleet equivalent of 4chan/Anonymous: a bunch of random assholes who were "members" by virtue of sharing the same values and deciding that they were aligned under a silly name. If that's as far as it went, I don't have problem buying in. But a centralized command, official recognition as its own organization, thier own ships, and badges??? Fuck off with that shit.

The whole way they are approaching Section 31 in this doesn't ring true for me at all. I wish Star Trek would just stop using them.

To stay something positive about the episode, The interior sets and exteriors on Qu'nos looked really really cool. Wonderful design and just really "alien." Very beautiful to look at.

I agree. That's definitely what the show has going for it. It looks and sounds beautiful and the cast and characters are awesome. If only the writing would catch on.

Also anyone recognize the symbol on this guy’s outfit? It seems familiar

I dunno, I'm so distracted by those snails on his upper lip pretending to be a beard to notice anything else.

And, I kept mentally shouting, ask what it wants for fuck's sake. That's the first thing you want to know before you take it out. It obviously had goals and a plan. Learn about it. T

Yes, I did the same! Why the fuck wouldn't she just ask what her damn plan was? Just seemed so stupid to have May constantly talk about a plan and never have Tilly ask about what she means.

Not sure why people are doubting a Section 31 with Georgiou show. I mean they basically built a fancy new set for the show which you can see in this episode. That tells me it's already a done deal. The Section 31 ship was way to fancy to just be some random spaceship of the week.

I haven't seen anyone mention this, but the bridge set of the Section 31 ship was a redressed Shenzhou bridge, was it not? If I remember correctly, they built the Shenzhou bridge as a two-level set and now they seem to actually use the first level as well. Kind of ironic to put Mirror Georgiou on that set.

I loved how the English subtitles switched to Klingon when the spoken language switched to English. That was clever.

I don't know how this was supposed to look on CBSAA, but on Netflix it didn't really work, because their captions look/work differently.

You must not have seen the Star Trek: The Next Generation Season 6 episode "Rightful Heir."

I wish people would stop blaming this show for things that aren't to their taste, but already occurred in prior Trek series.

But we can complain about things in Discovery that occurred in other shows as well and weren't to our taste there either, can we? I know I was going on about this in last week's thread, but this still irks me. Person X says they don't like Y about Discovery, and promptly there's someone pointing out that show Z did Y as well. And? Does that automatically negate that person X can dislike Y in Discovery? Someone riddle me this please.

And for the love of Trek...Stamets needs more to do.

But but but … there were plenty of times in TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT where characters got nothing to do over long stretches of episodes! Might as well burn your old DVDs right now.

And I am sick of all the self proclaimed professional critics inhabiting the internet that know how to discern weaknesses in filmed entertainment but have completely forgotten, (or never known) how to simply watch something for the fun IN it! Long live Discovery!

Is there nothing in entertainment you don't like and enjoy? How would you like it if someone would tell you to simply watch what you don't happen to enjoy “for the fun in it”?

I really liked the use of scenery and juxtaposition in Burnham and Tyler's holographic conversation. That was clever and affecting. DSC is full of nifty visual touches like that.

I wondered if this – after the “vanishing crewmen” in “Context is for Kings” or the “instant teleportation” of Burnham from the Discovery to right in front of Spock's quarters in “Brother” – was something that would confuse the more literal viewers again.

DS9's second season is lacklustre at best and probably one of the weakest seasons overall in the franchise.

Oh no you didn't!

While I greatly enjoy season one of Deep Space Nine, I really love season two and think it's one of that show's strongest seasons overall. It certainly has the longest stretch of consistently good episodes to offer, I feel. Episodes like the circle trilogy, “Necessary Evil”, “Whispers”, “Paradise”, “The Maquis” “The Wire” “Crossover” and “Tribunal” are some of the best the show has to offer. That ol' “The show gets good in season four” mantra always felt off to me. But yeah, different strokes and all that …

Michael. Spell it with me. M-I-C-H-A-E-L
Thank you,
Michael

Honestly, I never met anyone who had trouble spelling my name!

 

[137th Gebirg]

The Shenzhou was definitely not a two-level bridge and this one had an upper-dome curve, where as the Shenzhou’s bridge, being the first to be placed underneath the primary hull, had a lower-dome curve, but possibly a slightly taller-than-average ceiling because of it. Definitely not a two-deck bridge, though.

 

[Noname Given]

okay, but how is this not a canon contradiction? Screen communication was commonplace from starbases, other ships, planets, shuttles, you name it.

Those straws your grasping are pretty thin. Why not watch something you enjoy rather than getting worked up over minor lines of dialogue?

 

[Hythlodeus]

but why do the writer's think Klingon politics are so goddamn interesting?

idk, because they are? at least to me, ymmv of course

 

[Michael]

The Shenzhou was definitely not a two-level bridge and this one had an upper-dome curve, where as the Shenzhou’s bridge, being the first to be placed underneath the primary hull, had a lower-dome curve, but possibly a slightly taller-than-average ceiling because of it. Definitely not a two-deck bridge, though.

I didn't say the Shenzhou was a two-level bridge, I said a two-level set. Comparing screenshots they do appear to be the same albeit altered set. Notice the same wall structures, doors and consoles even.

 

[marsh8472]

I don’t care.

I’ve already admitted that some continuity has been violated anyways, so I don’t see the point.

But so have the previous 5 series.

Pff

Maybe people should stop using "canon" when they mean continuity and stop using violation when they mean "changes I don't like".

English has changed to allow the words "canon" and "continuity" to be used synonymously

 

[shapeshifter]

Is there nothing in entertainment you don't like and enjoy?

I'm not sure I understand the question but, I don't watch things I do not enjoy.

How would you like it if someone would tell you to simply watch what you don't happen to enjoy “for the fun in it”?

I'm not telling anyone to watch anything they do not enjoy but I do wonder why so many seem to do just that, though.