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The Punisher-- Marvel/Netflix

JD said:
I'm not a writer for any of the shows, so I don't know for sure, but if I had to guess, I would say it could potentially come from trying to stretch the story out so it fits the preset number of episode.
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I don't get it. J. Michael Straczynski and Joss Whedon were able to stretch out one major story arc within a 22-episode season with the likes of "BABYLON 5" and "BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER". Yet, the Marvel Netfilx writers are barely able to stretch out one story arc within 10 to 13 episodes? Writing for television has really declined over the years.
 
LJones41 said:
I don't get it. J. Michael Straczynski and Joss Whedon were able to stretch out one major story arc within a 22-episode season with the likes of "BABYLON 5" and "BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER". Yet, the Marvel Netfilx writers are barely able to stretch out one story arc within 10 to 13 episodes? Writing for television has really declined over the years.
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Well that's a lovely example of comparing apples to potatoes.

I never really had any issue with the pacing of these shows, though I understand that other people disagree. But Whedon and Stracynzki never wrote anything even remotely comparable to this format. When they needed more story that didn't fit their pacing they just inserted stand-alone episodes into the season.
 
@LJones41 where are you now? I'm curious, I didn't notice a slow down anywhere. I did notice a side step with the Wilson plot but while it did seem to branch, it was part of what was happening in Frank's life and also was the turning point for all of the principles to realize who Billy really was.
 
I haven't noticed a slowdown, but the show wasn't the fastest paced show to begin with (something deliberate by the showrunner and not a question of number of episodes - if anything, the episodes themselves could have been shorter). The only possible place I noticed a slowdown was after episode one, which was a pretty contained episode all things considered.
 
In most 22 episode shows like those mentioned above, the main story arc is often on the back burner for most of the season with self contained episodes taking the main stage. That is certainly a route that Netflix shows should take in my opinion. Yet, when the series introduce other sideplots as in DD Season 2 and LC Season 1, they are accused of meandering.
 
There does seem to be a strong mind set that the whole thing must be "one big story" rather than multiple stories together in an episodic (or semi episodic) format. It sometimes seems arbitrary even to have episodes as it's all one long movie in some ways.
Maybe the pendulum will swing back the other way. While I didn't notice "slowdowns with most of the Netflix Marvel shows" at least one of them was like watching cement dry for me, I'm not saying which because it seems to be a favorite of many here, I only watched it because Claire mentioned something to Luke Cage that happened and I didn't see before and sure enough that's where it was shown.
 
LJones41 said:
I’m in the middle of watching Season One of “THE PUNISHER”. Yeah, I'm pretty late to the Marvel Netflix franchise. Don’t get me wrong. I’m enjoying the series, but like “DAREDEVIL” and “JESSICA JONES” before it, the season seems to be slowing down to a crawl midway. Why? Why are some of the writers of the Marvel Netflix series incapable of overcoming this?
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I just finished Punisher season 1. As with the other Marvel series it seems to follow the same formula right down to the mid season where the hero is seriously injured and needs to heal.
I think 10 episodes a season would make it a tighter show. As it is there feels like there is a lot of filler and it takes it's time getting to the good stuff. I was frankly bored throughout most of it. Another thing is that again it's the same story of Frank getting revenge for his family.
 
Ten episodes are needed to make a tighter show? Why not six episodes? Why not forgo the television format altogether and just air the occasional miniseries? How often do television producers have to shrink the number of episodes in order to adhere to the attention span of viewers, who seem increasingly unable to continue watching a television show that uses the serial format? My main complaint about the Marvel Netflix shows is that their pacing strikes me as uneven. I've seen serial dramas with more episodes than 13 per season that have better pacing. I don't see how reducing the number of episodes is going to automatically solve the franchise's problems.
 
LJones41 said:
I've seen serial dramas with more episodes than 13 per season that have better pacing. I don't see how reducing the number of episodes is going to automatically solve the franchise's problems.
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Since 13 episodes are basically telling one story I think it would. Or at least help with the pacing problems of producers who don't know what else to do.
I started watching DareDevil season 3 now and that has my attention far more than this does. Then again we don't have to watch Matt Murdock hit a wall with a sledgehammer for a whole episode.
 
LJones41 said:
Ten episodes are needed to make a tighter show? Why not six episodes? Why not forgo the television format altogether and just air the occasional miniseries? How often do television producers have to shrink the number of episodes in order to adhere to the attention span of viewers, who seem increasingly unable to continue watching a television show that uses the serial format? My main complaint about the Marvel Netflix shows is that their pacing strikes me as uneven. I've seen serial dramas with more episodes than 13 per season that have better pacing. I don't see how reducing the number of episodes is going to automatically solve the franchise's problems.
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We did get a miniseries, The Defenders, and it had one of the worst receptions of anything Marvel & Netflx have released so far.
Reducing the episode count would be the simplest way to solve the pacing issues. By reducing the number of episodes, they would be telling the stories in less time, which means they would have to move things along at faster pace.
 
This is ridiculous. It seems as if no one really wants the screenwriters to sit down and learn how to improve their writing. Instead, they want a simple solution - cut the number of episodes. That is just so lazy to me.
 
It would be the easiest way to resolve the issue, especially since the overall quality of the writing is good to holy shit amazing.
 
LJones41 said:
This is ridiculous. It seems as if no one really wants the screenwriters to sit down and learn how to improve their writing. Instead, they want a simple solution - cut the number of episodes. That is just so lazy to me.
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It's one way to make a tighter show for a story they are telling. Either that or open the show up more to other arcs and characters more rather than just focusing on the story of one hero.
 
Why not zero episodes, then you won't be bored, because that's what I'm worried we're getting after what's already shot is shown.

There was no point in Punisher season 1 I found boring. I was just waiting for Frank to take care of that whole bunch, I guess you really don't like slow building tension, do you? I thought that 1 episode was a great way to introduce the character and also establish how this fits from Daredevil season 2.
 
Marsden said:
There was no point in Punisher season 1 I found boring. I was just waiting for Frank to take care of that whole bunch, I guess you really don't like slow building tension, do you?
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The episode wasn't necessary. It doesn't tie into anything else from the season. Yes, it was a slow burn to what we knew was going to happen so I can't say it had all that much tension.
 
It is pretty easy for Marvel fans to express their opinion about the cancellations to Netflix. Just organize everyone to mass cancel their Netflix subscriptions.
 
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theenglish said:
It is pretty is for Marvel fans to express their opinion about the cancellations to Netflix. Just organize everyone to mass cancel their Netflix subscriptions.
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As I recall from an article about the cancellations, part of the reason for them was that Netflix determined that the Marvel shows brought them few new subscribers; most of the viewers were already subscribed to Netflix for other things as well. I don't think many of those subscribers would choose to give up everything else they get from Netflix.

In other words, if the number of people who subscribed only for the Marvel shows were large enough for their loss to have a financial impact on Netflix, then the shows wouldn't have been cancelled in the first place.
 
Christopher said:
As I recall from an article about the cancellations, part of the reason for them was that Netflix determined that the Marvel shows brought them few new subscribers; most of the viewers were already subscribed to Netflix for other things as well. I don't think many of those subscribers would choose to give up everything else they get from Netflix.

In other words, if the number of people who subscribed only for the Marvel shows were large enough for their loss to have a financial impact on Netflix, then the shows wouldn't have been cancelled in the first place.
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Yes, that is exactly the reason they gave. I don't think I have any right to complain as I, like many others, am keeping my Netflix subscription. Although I will miss these shows, there are so many other alternatives out there right now that it is difficult to keep up with them all.
 
I'm not giving up Netflix either, there is just way to much other stuff I watch on there for me to be willing to give it up.
 
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