USS Vengeange schematics, and the dislike to USS explained

[A'Tun-Te]

Greetings:

I am searching for schematics about the UFS Vengeance (UFS hereunder explained).
Specifically the saucer section and body section/drive section.
If anyone could help me, I would be quite grateful.

As to USS vs UFS: I very much dislike the USS prefix, as this is "too American".
Do not get me wrong here, I have absolutely no issues with America(ns), it is just too Earthly a prefix for the United Federation of Panets!
What would the second S stand for?
Nothing logical, and, excuse me the next line, too human dominant because it being so very American.
NCC was good, UFS (United Federation Starship) or UFPS (United Federation (of) Planets Starship) would be even better, more respecting to the other species.

But, this is a personal feeling and thought line.
Feel free to simply ignore this, or to comment it.

Up to you....

 

[BillJ]

As to USS vs UFS: I very much dislike the USS prefix, as this is "too American".

It is an American franchise. I wouldn't have a problem with a British series using HMS. The Honor Harrington series uses HMS.

 

[fireproof78]

What would the second S stand for?

I always read it as United Star Ship (USS) with United being a reference to the Federation. However, I do like your idea.

Specifically the saucer section and body section/drive section.
If anyone could help me, I would be quite grateful.

I have not seen such schematics but would recommend searching for in movie graphics that might portray the ship.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I once read on old fan manual that explained USS stood for United Federation of Planets/Starfleet/Starship rather than "United Space Ship" as it was in TOS.

As for the Vengeance, there are no official schematics out there, best I've seen are the ones in the Eaglemoss Official Starships Collection model booklet, but even that just has front and top views, and some detail zoom-ins. Otherwise just the size one

 

[Mysterion]

It is an American franchise. I wouldn't have a problem with a British series using HMS. The Honor Harrington series uses HMS.

The Honor Harrington series uses HMS because the action is set mainly in a monarchy (the Star Kingdom of Manticore), not because it is a British product (the author is quite American).

 

[fireproof78]

 

[pst]

no schematics but detailed renders, you got:

 

[A'Tun-Te]

Thank you all.

Now, From where I stand, the UFP is a multi-species federation, seeing our history, think they would approve with a USS, HMS or whatever very Earthly in their era/reality?
Seeing what violent baboons we are, I think not.
But, that could be me...

Thank you, again, for your help!!!

 

[fireproof78]

Thank you all.

Now, From where I stand, the UFP is a multi-species federation, seeing our history, think they would approve with a USS, HMS or whatever very Earthly in their era/reality?
Seeing what violent baboons we are, I think not.
But, that could be me...

Thank you, again, for your help!!!

I don't agree with that, when one of the founding members admits to being from "a violent race" and the Vulcans demonstrate their own problems.

But, I've already advocate why I think USS is appropriate, and have no issue with it. I don't see it as Earth centric, any more than have the three letter abbreviation before a starship is an Earth centric convention.

 

[A'Tun-Te]

They all have, of course, their problems.
There's no such thing as a perfect society.
However, the aliens are quite aware of our turbulent past, and USS or HMS are both warlike abbreviations (whetehr you like it or not) that in that era, we would preferably not refer to, inadvertently or not?
And UF(P)S would make so more sense. :P

 

[fireproof78]

They all have, of course, their problems.
There's no such thing as a perfect society.
However, the aliens are quite aware of our turbulent past, and USS or HMS are both warlike abbreviations (whetehr you like it or not) that in that era, we would preferably not refer to, inadvertently or not?
And UF(P)S would make so more sense. :P

I'm not saying it doesn't make sense. I'm saying USS also makes sense.

In universe, UFS might be an abbreviation from another culture with warlike implications.

 

[Mudd]

The Honor Harrington series uses HMS because the action is set mainly in a monarchy (the Star Kingdom of Manticore), not because it is a British product (the author is quite American).

Yes, but he only uses HMS to mimick the British. Any other supposed reasons are after the fact. Same with Trek.

 

[Maurice]

Another illustrator that can't get the Golden Gate Bridge right. Ahem...

THE REAL ONE'S NOT SYMMETRICAL, ONE TOWER IS ON THE SHORE AND THERE'S ONLY ONE GODDAMNED ARCH.

Ahem.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Given at least thirty-three references to "Federation Starship Enterprise", fifty references to "Federation Starship Voyager", and over a hundred-and-ffity references to "Federation Starship", I've always been a fan of the idea than the prefix should be FSS (as it was in one of the timelines in TNG: Q & A), I'd also like to see a bit more variety in the registry prefix, for starters runabouts might be capable auxiliary vessels but they're not in the same "weightclass" as starships (at minimum they could be in the NAR prefix of the Mariposa, the Nenebek and the Raven).

 

[Mudd]

U.S.S. works fine. Trek was an American show for American audiences, full of American cultural values and assumptions, grounded in a fairly unexamined white American view of history. I'm always astonished that it's been rather uncritically embraced by people from so many other places.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

USS or HMS are both warlike abbreviations

No, they aren't.

They may be military, but not warlike. Those don't always go together.

(Although, now that you mention it, it may have been why ENT didn't use something like UES - United Earth Ship - for the NX-01 and its ilk. Unlike the Federation Starfleet, the Earth Starfleet is explicitly non-military, so it might have intentionally avoided the use of all prefixes for precisely that reason.)

In universe, UFS might be an abbreviation from another culture with warlike implications.

And out of universe, the term 'Federation' wasn't thought of by the writers until well into TOS' run. USS came first. So there was no real chance UFS would ever be used, even though it makes more sense.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Another illustrator that can't get the Golden Gate Bridge right. Ahem...

THE REAL ONE'S NOT SYMMETRICAL, ONE TOWER IS ON THE SHORE AND THERE'S ONLY ONE GODDAMNED ARCH.

Ahem.

You're the first person to quote that for a reason other than to complain about the ship sizes

 

[M'Sharak]

You're the first person to quote that for a reason other than to complain about the ship sizes

He's the first to quote it in this thread, period.

Don't attempt to flog a ship-size argument where one does not already exist, or I'll be forced to move your post to the one thread where that does belong.

 

[Timo]

(Although, now that you mention it, it may have been why ENT didn't use something like UES - United Earth Ship - for the NX-01 and its ilk. Unlike the Federation Starfleet, the Earth Starfleet is explicitly non-military, so it might have intentionally avoided the use of all prefixes for precisely that reason.)

Well, UESF did use USS in front of the NX names in its computer graphics. Perhaps they were just tightwads when it came to pennant paint?

And while "Military" was the opposite of "Starfleet" back then, combatant seemed to be the only thing Starfleet was - until Archer's groundbreaking exploration mission came along. But keeping a low national profile might have been a thing there, the "intentional avoidance" done to placate the Vulcan overlords and alleviate their concerns that Earthfleet would patriotically compete with the fleets of others in that oldest of games.

And out of universe, the term 'Federation' wasn't thought of by the writers until well into TOS' run. USS came first. So there was no real chance UFS would ever be used, even though it makes more sense.

Convenient, though, that both UFP and UE feature the buzz letter. Believing in UE Starfleet Starship or UFP Starfleet Starship is pretty easy in retrospect.

...Apparently the Vengeance never had any pennant paint applied, and wasn't identified in any of the computer screens we saw. Was she supposed to be USS or not? That is, did any of the walla (say, when Scotty spies on the dockyard) use the prefix?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tuskin38]

Well, UESF did use USS in front of the NX names in its computer graphics.

That was an error on the side of the 2D artists, nothing more.