Which book or books do you have them appear in? I would be interested in seeing how similar or different they are from what I've seen so far. The practice of using Warrantors is certainly a different way of characterizing the Federation than what I'm used to. I guess I keep overthinking it when there's no need. The crisis on Centaurus was sparked off after a grumpy sentient had an argument with a malfunctioning ATM. I like it when tie-in fiction is able to provide cohesion between stories that are very different. Dweller connects TMP with TWOK, and characterizes Spock in a very satisfying way. I'm glad to know that this will be picked up on in Spock's World. I had a try at skimming through The Wounded Sky, which I find is challenging for finding details like this. I get the impression that the protoGod has interacted or come into contact with a being or beings called The Others, which it says confirms Kirk's story about coming from another universe. And I get the impression that after mentioning these mysterious Others, it seems like it or they decide to apply that same name to themselves (as if they feel kinship in some sense to the Others from "our" universe and feel like they are the counterpart for there own...?). It would be neat if Dwellers was deliberately referencing the same Others who make contact with the protoGod. @TheAlmanac Thanks for posting those earlier perspectives about DitC! I got a kick out of reading them.
Mainly throughout the Department of Temporal Investigations series, and also in Rise of the Federation: Uncertain Logic. Actually it was a travelers' cheque dispenser, something that was rendered pretty much obsolete when ATMs became commonplace after the book came out. It rather dates the novel. What was referenced in Spock's World was not "Others," it was "the Other" -- basically God. Let's just say Duane's take on Trek wasn't as atheistic as Roddenberry might've preferred.
I'm a Star Trek fan that wishes TNG, and the spawn it created, never existed. Wish they kept building off of the movie universe from where 4 left off- could take or leave 5 and 6. So this thread is of interest to me! Personally I've gone through much of the Rihannsu series, but I'll need to re-read it now that I have The Empty Chair. The Final Reflection is, as far as I'm concerned, the final word on the Klingons. There are a couple of other continuities that are also as interesting as the novelverse, IMO, that similarly ended once TNG came up and ignored everything made before it. FASA's forrays into the TMP-era state of Star Trek is pretty unique. What's left is a neat perspective on what the Trek fandom looked like when Wrath of Khan, SfS, and TVH were new. That world is pretty much dead when TNG came out, but it's still a pretty neat place. The DC comic continuity also has its share of interesting takes. Enterprise gets recommissioned into service after WoK. Following its destruction Kirk and the crew are given the command of Excelsior and have a few of their own missions, going into TVH and getting the Enterprise back. Some new characters were introduced as well (Including Klingon Defector Konom, the first Klingon in Starfleet), which are more or less never mentioned again. A second run of them in the 90s had a few more introductions, including the Nasgul race which seemed to be an up-and-coming threat to the Federation. I'll have to keep my eye out for these books, maybe embark on reading all of them myself!
That was DC, not Marvel. Marvel had the Trek comics license in two briefer phases -- one in 1980-82 that told followup stories to ST:TMP without the rights to reference characters or storylines from TOS itself (though it snuck a few under the radar), and the "Marvel Paramount Comics" deluge in 1996-8 that included comics based on all four series at the time as well as original titles like Early Voyages and Starfleet Academy.
I stand corrected! I'll have to track down those TMP marvel comics. There's also the newspaper strip comics also set after TMP, which includes adventures like the Nogura Regatta. It's also the only scene where we see the refit Enterprise side-by-side with a TOS stablemate (The Venture). Though I think Bernie (AKA Kobry, The adopted son of Konom and Nancy) is the only comic-origin thing to be referenced elsewhere. Kobry shows up in TNG Strike Zone.
Yes, Peter David created Bernie for the comics, and when he was pressured to abandon that storyline in the comics, he wrote Strike Zone to tie off the loose story threads. Some of the later comics did have tie-ins with the novels. A few characters from the Marvel-Paramount Comics run have been revived in the novels, and some comics published by Wildstorm and IDW have been referenced by the novels or shared continuity with them.
I have always liked the aesthetics of TWoK through TVH, and TMP grew on me. There's a little bit of that sentiment in reading through these particular books, keeping things "simple" and seeing how elements from TOS and the movies could have been developed. There's no Borg or Cardassians or Bajorans; but there are Deltans and Rihannsu and Horta and Sulamids. I was very happy to find a copy of The Empty Chair in high quality condition, for a used bookstore price! It'll be interesting to see how Diane Duane's Rihannsu books unfold and change as I shift out of the 80's continuity and into the more modern Litverse. The Final Reflection is phenomenal. I've got a copy of the Prime Directive RPG once, for curiosities sake to peruse the timeline details. Interesting alternative, except I was dismayed that every one-shot skirmish from TOS (Balance of Terror, Errand of Mercy) is translated as a full outbreak of hostilites, so it becomes a timeline so many wars against the Klingons and Romulans. I guess that's because it is based on a more conflict driven Star Trek game. I haven't delved extensively, with this reading project in the works. Yeah, I'm loving the Volume 1 storyline. The 80's comics are an unplanned parallel read through, and there has been some nice cross over moments such as Diane Duane's characters making appearances. Right now the crew is running Excelsior through there shakedown cruise, however I'm nearing the end of that where they have to transition to the Enterprise-A. One more story before they head back to Vulcan in time for TVH! I've got the Volume 2 series ready to roll once I finish the first batch. Looking forward to it. If you do, I hope you get a kick out of them. I'm really enjoying the continuity that I'm starting to see accumulate so far. And I like seeing how authors have made use of the novel format to broaden the scope of TOS's setting.
Times like this I also ache for some official Trek entity to cut loose and actually make another timeline that branches off the TMP moves as you describe. No Borg, no Cardassians... We have some hints here and there, beyond just the Kelvinverse. There was a waypoint story a while ago depicting a Phase II episode I'd like to see made into an ongoing series. What is the trifecta like without Spock? (as an aside, Spock in his own command was also refreshing to see. I would have liked to see Spock continue o bring up his own crew for more than a few installments- all of them were interesting). I just don't like how the ship has been steered since TNG started to air. It's colored everything since, and it's why I rejoyced when the JJ movies decided to eject all that for a restart. These novels are the closest thing to seeing that universe. Ah well...
Yeah, it could have been interesting the "Next Generation" had more literally been the next generation. They could have picked up with the characters post TUC. Imagine if they had not discarded the new characters like Saavik and David Marcus, and perhaps featured Sulu in command of a ship - Kirk and Spock having finally having been promoted or retired off the board.
It is interesting when you read the older novels. Now I admit I'm a huge fan of all Star Trek, including the various spinoffs and the Abramsverse movies, but there's a certain simplicity when you watch older Star Trek. They were basically starting from scratch almost from every episode and movie. Like anything as it grew more continuity became necessary to avoid things becoming overly chaotic and complicated. Once I'm through my Bantam collection I plan on re-reading some of the older Pocketbook novels. I said before it will be interesting to read some of those novels that didn't have TNG and post-TNG shows, where it was just the original series. Since I loved those later shows as well, it will be sort of a compare and contrast for me, which will be interesting since the last time I read those novels was years ago (some before there was a TNG). The Empty Chair was interesting and I thought a pretty good book (it was more satisfying that the prior 2 Rihannsu novels). Duane did take into account some of what we learned about the Romulans in the TNG and post-TNG shows. And I didn't feel she sacrificed anything in her story to do it. It was more one of those things where it didn't interfere with her narrative she incorporated elements of what we later learned about Romulans.
Although I grew up with TNG, I disconnected with the three series that followed on from those. I like the Borg a lot, as long as they are kept in small doses. The Waypoint story, is that the short comic story? I think I've seen that several times, and I keep talking myself in and out of snagging it, so I keep on not getting it. I like that it tries for a visual halfway point between TOS and TMP, and have toyed with using that as a visual reference for the 80's novel continuity's halfway point; I'm not keen on that version of Captain Kirk's chair, though, it doesn't sit well with me. I like the whole set up in DC Volume 1, with most of the crew on Excelsior, but Spock is elsewhere with his own crew aboard the USS Surak. I like the Surak characters, even though I know what's going to happen to them. I read in the letters section why the writer justifies what he did to the Surak, but it seems to me like he really overdid it. Maybe I'll feel differently when I actually read that story, but I doubt it; my gut tells me it's kind of cynical. It's interesting given that the Kelvin-verse is one of the elements that motivated me to actually get started with the 80's novels. They dropped the Kelvin-verse novels, but there were still these old books that could offer the alternative-Trek experience. And I've been reading them between the Kelvin-verse movies, and I am at peace with the stalled momentum of the JJ Abrams movies because I'm only 1/3 of the way through my reading list, so the 80's novels are going to outlast that continuity that I had high hopes for. I've actually dabbled with writing notes for possible set-ups for what I think that would look like. Part of which involves taking some of those discarded characters and putting them back into play. I definitely agree that there's a lot of Trek that I still like, and I'm not worried about continuity clashes. I'm receptive to trying DS9 and Enterprise, and eventually Voyager, too. These books are easy to take, though, one story at a time. Given the way My Enemy, My Ally is structured, I can imagine how the surface level story can continue to carry through the books even as the background story shifts underneath without disrupting things too much.
Sounds interesting, hope you're able to share it sometime. In addition to David Marcus and Saavik, it would have been nice to see Decker and Ilia last a bit longer than they did.
It'd be interesting if some future book featured the new being that V'Ger, Ilia and Decker became. They obviously evolved into a higher plane of existence, but they're out there somewhere. It's be interesting to revisit them someday.
This is more or less why I'm making the board game that I mentioned in the art section. With all the expansions, you could be Captain Decker, driving the refitted Enterprise, and Ilia can be a navigator. All as V'ger is a few months late- or never arrives. Part of why I know as much as I do is from extensive research in this very subject to look for characters and people to populate the game!
It's a very bare bones sketch-outline, only 3/4th of a page. It's an outline of a writer's bible for a series that will never be; I appreciate the interest. I'll send you a PM. That looks really fun! The miniatures are great, I'm impressed. I quite like that movie era you've singled out. My reading project here is also partly motivated by wanting read more stories set in TOS movie era, as a kid I was in awe of the look of those movies, and they were intense viewing experiences at that young age.
Wait a second, are you the same @Desert Kris I was discussing Doctor Who Christmas books with yesterday?
All of the second era of Marvel comics came out in just two years? I thought that went on a lot longer than that. I'm the opposite, I'm prefer the later series, and I like it when the modern TOS books work in elements from the other shows and vice versa. It really helps it to all feel like one big connected universe. I'm honestly kind of surprised this has never happened.
Nope, they were mostly cancelled after 17-18 issues. The total run was from November 1996 to July 1998, so about 21 months in all.
They popped up in a SNW story that I read recently. It's called "Alpha and Omega" and it appears in vol. 8.