Pretty much my exact feelings about the show.
"Timeless" TV Movie Finale Dec 20 Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Romulan_spy
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I think one of the issues is that it never really delved into the consequences of the historical changes. They were changing some major historical events and they would come back and only find minor changes in their world, where there should have been major ones.
Timeless to me almost seems like a companion series to VOYAGERS!, which it would be interesting if the Voyagers were fixing the red lights caused by the Timeless cast.
Speaking of Voyagers!--THAT is a show I would love to see revisited.
Timeless to me almost seems like a companion series to VOYAGERS!, which it would be interesting if the Voyagers were fixing the red lights caused by the Timeless cast.
Speaking of Voyagers!--THAT is a show I would love to see revisited.
Well, the show ended on a pretty typical note -- moderately entertaining, not very deep, and with totally incoherent temporal logic. It makes no sense to spend two years showing history get drastically changed from where the show started, then turn around and claim it's a consistent time loop. The Lucy that would've existed in the original timeline and given the book to Flynn can't possibly be the same person as the Lucy we saw at the end of this movie -- especially when the 2023 Lucy we saw at the end isn't even the same one we saw at the beginning of this movie.
None of the chase-through-time stuff really engaged me that much, because the stakes were extremely low. I was wondering at the end of season 2 how Emma could ever be made into an effective archvillain when she didn't seem to have any real agenda or master plan, and apparently the answer was that she couldn't. She was just out for money and trying to get the team out of the way, no larger scope to the conflict, no fate-of-the-world stakes. For a series climax, it was a surprisingly small story. It was mostly about wrapping up the character arcs, and hardly seemed interested in its villain. Not that I can fault a show for putting its characters first, but usually you want to have something interesting and important to pit them against as the catalyst for their personal journeys.
None of the chase-through-time stuff really engaged me that much, because the stakes were extremely low. I was wondering at the end of season 2 how Emma could ever be made into an effective archvillain when she didn't seem to have any real agenda or master plan, and apparently the answer was that she couldn't. She was just out for money and trying to get the team out of the way, no larger scope to the conflict, no fate-of-the-world stakes. For a series climax, it was a surprisingly small story. It was mostly about wrapping up the character arcs, and hardly seemed interested in its villain. Not that I can fault a show for putting its characters first, but usually you want to have something interesting and important to pit them against as the catalyst for their personal journeys.
Timeless reminded me a lot of Voyagers from the very beginning. Hell, you've probably got to be in your mid-40's or older to even remember that show!
I remember it. I remember it being dumb as hell. At least Timeless had a reason for history to go off-course.
So none of the Rittenhouse stuff was resolved?
That to me was the worst part of the series
That to me was the worst part of the series
It was resolved in the sense that... it just ended. The Prestons were out of the picture, Emma was in charge, she wanted to do her own thing instead of the Rittenhouse agenda so all that got tossed out the window (which wasn't necessarily a bad thing), they stopped her, the end.
That's good at least. Mind you watching it now what the hell was Rittenhouse after they just seemed to plod along aimless.
Ooh I like that.
I have never seen Timeless, but enough friends whose opinions I respect were amped up for the Christmas special/series finale that I decided I'd give "The Miracle of Christmas" a shot.
I went in knowing absolutely nothing, except that the series had something to do with time travel. And, for a non-viewer, the finale was nigh incomprehensible. I didn't understand the underlying conflict, I expected more metaphysical drama about what it's like to have people from different timelines with differing memories interacting (ie., is this truly the person I remember?), and there were directions I thought the story was going to go (among others, that once they had both Mothership and Liferaft they would go back in time and rescue Flynn so he didn't drown alone in the past for a "Christmas miracle") that it didn't.
In short, I can't say whether I liked it or not. I didn't turn it off, I can say that. It seemed well-made, the actors were engaging.
The Voyagers! comparison upthread strikes me as largely accurate, but there's also a bit of Young Indiana Jones in there (which had an unfortunate tendency to be "historical Family Guy" in a "spot the reference" sense).
I went in knowing absolutely nothing, except that the series had something to do with time travel. And, for a non-viewer, the finale was nigh incomprehensible. I didn't understand the underlying conflict, I expected more metaphysical drama about what it's like to have people from different timelines with differing memories interacting (ie., is this truly the person I remember?), and there were directions I thought the story was going to go (among others, that once they had both Mothership and Liferaft they would go back in time and rescue Flynn so he didn't drown alone in the past for a "Christmas miracle") that it didn't.
In short, I can't say whether I liked it or not. I didn't turn it off, I can say that. It seemed well-made, the actors were engaging.
The Voyagers! comparison upthread strikes me as largely accurate, but there's also a bit of Young Indiana Jones in there (which had an unfortunate tendency to be "historical Family Guy" in a "spot the reference" sense).
It was a show for kids that taught history in an interesting way, and helped fuel a sci-fi passion for many. Hardly a dumb show. I think it's a concept that could be rebooted and delved into.
As for the finale--if you didn't actually watch the show during its run, no chance you would like it.
I feel that the writers never really gave much thought as to how time travel could work.
For example, if Jessica never was saved, and therefore, Rufus never died, then how come everyone except Rufus remembers the timeline where Rufus died? And if Rufus never died, why would they kill Jessica?
Why would Emma remember Jessica, but no one else at Rittenhouse?
Why was it so important for Emma to give Flynn the book? Did it ever occur to her that if she doesn't give Emma the book, then Flynn doesn't get the idea to steal the mothership, and her sister is saved?
Emma's logic for leaving her sister erased made no sense. She suddenly shrugged it off and said, "oh well, people die. Let's bang." Yes, everyone loses people they care about, but if you have the chance to help them, you do it.
Pretty much all the time travel effects made no sense.
Bill and Ted was more logical than this show, and arguably, so was Voyagers!
Voyagers! was a show where a group of people, living outside the time stream, had a guidebook as to how history should go. They never really got into it as the show only had 20 episodes, but there are so many questions. Why did things go wrong? Who wrote the guide book? Did outside interference get in the way of history, as in another time traveler? Or did some godly being decide, this is how it should go, and go mold the world?
Really, Rittenhouse was resolved at the end of last season, with Emma and Julia being the only survivors, who had no investment in R.'s agenda and were just nebulously evil. So the Rittenhouse element in the finale was little more than a token. This whole "epic" finale was really about nothing more than tying off loose plot threads. Hardly seems worth it.
Tying up loose plot threads was kind of the whole reason to do the finale.
Yeah but what the hell was Rittenhouse agenda what were they trying to achieve mucking up the timeline so much? Some of that still leaves me wanting to know more.
My review:
The finale was really good for what it needed to do. It wrapped up the character arcs and gave our main characters the happy endings were were wanting. Wyatt and Lucy get together and live happily every after. Rufus and Jiya get their happily ever after too. It also tied the whole show in a nice bow as we see the moment when future Lucy gives the diary to Flynn and sets in the motion the events we see in the very first episode. It also had some really nice moments. I liked the line about "what good is it to save history if we don't save the people in it". I did like that they save the pregnant Korean woman. That was very nice!
The finale was also very consistent with the rest of the show. It had the same tone but also the same problems as the rest of the show. The history part was superficial and incidental. The time travel mechanics did not make sense. How did the characters still remember alternate timelines when they should have changed too? For example, after FLynn killed Jessica, we see that the timeline was changed back to where Wyatt and Lucy were sleeping together yet Wyatt and Lucy still remember the previous timeline where they were not together because Jessica got in the way. That did not make sense.
I would posit that the consistent time loop has become kind of an overused trope in time travel stories. Like if you want your time travel story to be cool, it needs to all be a consistent loop. But I would argue that there are other kinds of interesting time travel stories that you can tell.
Well, if Lucy had not given Flynn her diary that would have broken the loop and created a radically different timeline with no adventures through history. Moreover, Rittenhouse would have successfully changed history and Wyatt and Lucy would never had met and fallen in love. So yes, it would had saved her sister but at a terrible cost to the rest of history and her own personal future!
Well the show gave us plenty of hints that Rittenhouse was an elitist, racist, and fascist organization. So we can safely assume that their goal was to create a fascist "paradise".
The finale was really good for what it needed to do. It wrapped up the character arcs and gave our main characters the happy endings were were wanting. Wyatt and Lucy get together and live happily every after. Rufus and Jiya get their happily ever after too. It also tied the whole show in a nice bow as we see the moment when future Lucy gives the diary to Flynn and sets in the motion the events we see in the very first episode. It also had some really nice moments. I liked the line about "what good is it to save history if we don't save the people in it". I did like that they save the pregnant Korean woman. That was very nice!
The finale was also very consistent with the rest of the show. It had the same tone but also the same problems as the rest of the show. The history part was superficial and incidental. The time travel mechanics did not make sense. How did the characters still remember alternate timelines when they should have changed too? For example, after FLynn killed Jessica, we see that the timeline was changed back to where Wyatt and Lucy were sleeping together yet Wyatt and Lucy still remember the previous timeline where they were not together because Jessica got in the way. That did not make sense.
I would posit that the consistent time loop has become kind of an overused trope in time travel stories. Like if you want your time travel story to be cool, it needs to all be a consistent loop. But I would argue that there are other kinds of interesting time travel stories that you can tell.
Well, if Lucy had not given Flynn her diary that would have broken the loop and created a radically different timeline with no adventures through history. Moreover, Rittenhouse would have successfully changed history and Wyatt and Lucy would never had met and fallen in love. So yes, it would had saved her sister but at a terrible cost to the rest of history and her own personal future!
Well the show gave us plenty of hints that Rittenhouse was an elitist, racist, and fascist organization. So we can safely assume that their goal was to create a fascist "paradise".
But their methods made no sense. Messing up the timeline could have wrecked their paradise too.
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