Nora is the 4th superhero to join the Legion.
So she's from the 31st century, or it's just also somewhere where she holidays?
So she's from the 31st century, or it's just also somewhere where she holidays?
Spoilers The Flash - Season 5
- Thread starter dahj
- Start date
Zoom loved creating duplicates of himself. I assume we're supposed to believe that this was just a duplicate that got captured by the wraith (or that Zoom escaped as it was just one wraith).
Why not? Thawne is a villain, so of course he does things that are wrong for the hero to do.
Not at all. The Legends are trying, in their own clumsy way, to prevent or correct changes to history. When they do try to change the past for their own selfish gain, it usually turns out badly, as we saw vividly in the most recent episode.
Or Thawne was just lying about not recognizing Nora. Arch-supervillains aren't the most reliable sources of information.
Barry said the Wraiths' job was to keep history from being changed. That means they attack and destroy temporal aberrations to prevent them from changing things (although apparently it only works with speedsters, not Legends-created aberrations). Since Zoom was native to that timeline, presumably the Wraith just put him back where he belonged and maybe erased his memory of the changed events.
Terrific episode and it shows what you can do with these characters when they focus on making superhero stories. I wish Supergirl would follow their lead.
I loved the reference to Dawn--and it leads to the theory that maybe by the end of this season, Dawn will be able to exist. Maybe somehow Nora is going to restore this part of the timeline, even though her own existence is erased. Maybe that mention implies that Nora shouldn't have been born.
There has been another point made here, and it's fair.
This entire series began with Reverse Flash killing Barry's mother, which set off a chain of events that would cause Barry to become the Flash earlier than he did before. Killing Barry's mother was a huge mistake for Thawne as it stranded him. Instead of destroying Flash, he needed him, and being impatient, he arranged the accident that gave him his powers early. HOW early, I don't know.
But in the original timeline, the Flash did exist and was still a hero.
That's why I wonder why Flashpoint was such a disaster and didn't just restore the original timeline.
I also wonder why didn't Barry just travel back to when he and Nora pushed the satellite, and just make sure Cicada and his niece are not in harm's way. Wouldn't that have also stopped Cicada?
Think about this--if I'm a Batman villain, and I found out that Bruce Wayne was Batman, and I had access to time travel, my way of killing Batman would be to save Bruce's parents.
Would BATMAN even want to stop me from creating Batman?
If I'm Captain Kirk in the nexus, and Soran is going to destroy a planet, I would tell Picard that his plan to stop Soran was really stupid, go back to the Enterprise B before Soran went insane, and make sure that he's on Deck 15 saving the ship and getting blasted into the nexus.
Stop Cicada by preventing his origin.
Other thought--the smartest part of the episode was having Killer Frost unaffected by Cicada.
That was perfect--because not all metas come from the particle accelerator/dark matter.
It tells me that Superman and Kara would be unaffected as well, as would J'onn.
That was very good.
I loved the reference to Dawn--and it leads to the theory that maybe by the end of this season, Dawn will be able to exist. Maybe somehow Nora is going to restore this part of the timeline, even though her own existence is erased. Maybe that mention implies that Nora shouldn't have been born.
There has been another point made here, and it's fair.
This entire series began with Reverse Flash killing Barry's mother, which set off a chain of events that would cause Barry to become the Flash earlier than he did before. Killing Barry's mother was a huge mistake for Thawne as it stranded him. Instead of destroying Flash, he needed him, and being impatient, he arranged the accident that gave him his powers early. HOW early, I don't know.
But in the original timeline, the Flash did exist and was still a hero.
That's why I wonder why Flashpoint was such a disaster and didn't just restore the original timeline.
I also wonder why didn't Barry just travel back to when he and Nora pushed the satellite, and just make sure Cicada and his niece are not in harm's way. Wouldn't that have also stopped Cicada?
Think about this--if I'm a Batman villain, and I found out that Bruce Wayne was Batman, and I had access to time travel, my way of killing Batman would be to save Bruce's parents.
Would BATMAN even want to stop me from creating Batman?
If I'm Captain Kirk in the nexus, and Soran is going to destroy a planet, I would tell Picard that his plan to stop Soran was really stupid, go back to the Enterprise B before Soran went insane, and make sure that he's on Deck 15 saving the ship and getting blasted into the nexus.
Stop Cicada by preventing his origin.
Other thought--the smartest part of the episode was having Killer Frost unaffected by Cicada.
That was perfect--because not all metas come from the particle accelerator/dark matter.
It tells me that Superman and Kara would be unaffected as well, as would J'onn.
That was very good.
None of those three are even metas - the full term is metahuman and all three are alien.
Great episode. I loved Ralph playing the song "Back in Time". And we got lots of great call backs to previous episodes. The best part of the episode though is that it moved the Nora plot forward big time. It would appear that Nora is working with the Reverse Flash from her time. The most logical conclusion is that she is trying to save future Barry from the Crisis and Reverse Flash is manipulating Nora to change the timeline in a way that helps him. Maybe he is hoping to use the timeline changes to get out of prison? Hopefully, we are setting up a big confrontation between Flash and Reverse Flash later this season.
As cool as the episode was, shouldn't Barry have been more hesitant to travel back in time? After all, the show made a super big deal about how Barry has learned his lesson about not traveling back in his own timeline but then he does it again. Oh Barry, when will you ever learn... LOL.
For me the Nora plot is the most interesting plot this season. Honestly, Cicada seems like a second tier villain to me. Sure he has a powerful ability but he does not come across as a "Big Boss" to me. I guess we should not be surprised that Team Flash's elaborate plan failed. Their first plan always fail because it is too early in the season for them to win yet. Team Flash always fails at first and then wins in the season finale. I do think Cisco was a bit dumb when he tosses the dagger into space. He should have sent it somewhere where it was impossible for it to return to Cicada like an alternate Earth. Killer Frost was great in this episode! I hope she gets a real superhero suit soon.
As cool as the episode was, shouldn't Barry have been more hesitant to travel back in time? After all, the show made a super big deal about how Barry has learned his lesson about not traveling back in his own timeline but then he does it again. Oh Barry, when will you ever learn... LOL.
For me the Nora plot is the most interesting plot this season. Honestly, Cicada seems like a second tier villain to me. Sure he has a powerful ability but he does not come across as a "Big Boss" to me. I guess we should not be surprised that Team Flash's elaborate plan failed. Their first plan always fail because it is too early in the season for them to win yet. Team Flash always fails at first and then wins in the season finale. I do think Cisco was a bit dumb when he tosses the dagger into space. He should have sent it somewhere where it was impossible for it to return to Cicada like an alternate Earth. Killer Frost was great in this episode! I hope she gets a real superhero suit soon.
I am surprised, because I'd been getting the impression that they were splitting the season into smaller arcs rather than having a single season-long big bad again.
Yeah, I was kinda hoping it would succeed because I was also hoping that Cicada would be stopped in this episode and we would transition to the next villain plot. In fact, the ending with Nora and Reverse Flash could be a hint to what the second half of this season will be about. I hope so.
This was a very good episode. I think I can officially say that I think this is a pretty good season, and its great to actually enjoy The Flash again. The Flash seems to be following the Arrow model: Season 1 and 2 are great, season 3 is a bit meh but watchable and with good elements, Season 4 is a god awful pile of garbage, and Season 5 is pretty good. Hopefully it will split from Arrow here and have a good Season 6, because Arrow Season 6 was a complete reversal into crap.
Anyway, about the last episode specifically, Tom Cavanagh really is my favorite actor on the show. All of his various Wells are great, and we got a bit of a showcase (I'll never really forgive the show for getting rid of Harry
). The new Wells, Sherloque, is another interesting character played very well, and it seems like he'll be the one digging into Nora's secrets.
I'm also really liking the stuff with Killer Frost, having her be an ally is interesting, kind of making Snow a good guy version of Jekyll & Hyde. Cicada isn't the most interesting villain, but he works well enough and he's still better then Devoe. Fake Ralph is still a bad version of a character, but he's tolerable at this point. I'd prefer that he wasn't there, but he doesn't drag the episode down for me anymore.
The twist at the end with Nora actually took me by surprise, and I really want to know what happens. I also hope they just keep Thrawne looking like Wells, I always liked Cavanagh's version better then the actor who plays Thawne's original appearance.
Anyway, about the last episode specifically, Tom Cavanagh really is my favorite actor on the show. All of his various Wells are great, and we got a bit of a showcase (I'll never really forgive the show for getting rid of Harry
). The new Wells, Sherloque, is another interesting character played very well, and it seems like he'll be the one digging into Nora's secrets.I'm also really liking the stuff with Killer Frost, having her be an ally is interesting, kind of making Snow a good guy version of Jekyll & Hyde. Cicada isn't the most interesting villain, but he works well enough and he's still better then Devoe. Fake Ralph is still a bad version of a character, but he's tolerable at this point. I'd prefer that he wasn't there, but he doesn't drag the episode down for me anymore.
The twist at the end with Nora actually took me by surprise, and I really want to know what happens. I also hope they just keep Thrawne looking like Wells, I always liked Cavanagh's version better then the actor who plays Thawne's original appearance.
Understood, but one of the faults of this DC Arrowverse is that they rarely distinguish. Killer Frost not being affected because she either born that way or got her powers another way is awesome. I would hope that if he ever appeared, Black Lightning would also not be affected. I think they have way too many ways to neutralize powered beings. There shouldn't be some magic cage that can contain people.
No cage should be able to hold Supergirl or Superman for example without kryptonite or red sunlight being involved. That magic dust shouldn't have worked in last week's episode.
Totally agreed. Nora is far more interesting than Cicada. I think that these shows need to take it easy on the season long villain approach, or in Arrow's case, multiseason with Diaz. I think that an arc is fine, but no more than half a season and move on to something else. I didn't think for example, that the Thinker was worth a full season.
For me, the Nora thing is incredible. The only negative for me is that it probably means we will not meet Impulse on this show as bringing in Bart Allen would be so repetitive.
I do think though that this show copped out with Killer Frost. I guess making her so likeable made it tough to turn her evil, and we all like Caitlin, but Killer Frost isn't just evil, she is remorseless. This version is not even evil, and I like her as much as Caitlin. I can't decide if that's good or bad, but I do enjoy the character. That said, and I think it may be too late now, but would it have been more interesting if Killer Frost DID become this horrible, evil, monster? No reversal--a full heel turn.
I don't feel that Caitlin is a good guy version of Jeckyl and Hide, because in this case, Hide is kind of awesome and not that bad at all.
Strong episode for Flash this week.
Thawn/Wells calling her "Dawn" and then saying to Barry, "At least you have one left" implied to me that Nora will erase herself from the timeline and then Barry and Iris will have Dawn. it just seemed to me that Thawn knows that Barry and Iris have two daughters, one of which gets erased and he just did not immediately recognize which of the two he was looking at. Or maybe Nora and Dawn are twins so Thawn got them confused. Here's another thought: since it's also hinted at that Thawn is using Nora to change the timeline, maybe Thawn causes Nora to erase herself from the timeline because the changes to the timeline benefit him. It would be an evil and very Reverse Flash thing to do, to manipulate her into erasing herself from the timeline.
I don't think he was referring to two daughters but to two Noras, reminding Barry he killed one Nora, his mother.
Right. Barry's mom was called Nora too. That makes sense.
He takes a lot of joy in reminding Barry of what he did to his mother. That just gave him another excuse to rub it in.
Is it possible that Barry could time travel to the future right before the Crisis and try to help his future self not disappear? Or maybe Barry will time travel to the future to confront the Thawn we saw in prison if he gets out?
