Nicholas Meyer Discusses Discovery

[fireproof78]

Which in universe did turn out to be a complete and utter failure, to a dangerous degree. Helpfully removing itself from further stories.

It makes no sense for it to be removed though. It should be a threat as a weapon given that the Klingons and the Federation both have knowledge of it. The Federation might not be able to use it for what they wanted to but the Klingons would have no qualms for combat applications.

 

[Kemaiku]

It makes no sense for it to be removed though. It should be a threat as a weapon given that the Klingons and the Federation both have knowledge of it. The Federation might not be able to use it for what they wanted to but the Klingons would have no qualms for combat applications.

We don't know how dangerous or costly it is to generate Proto-matter compared to just hitting the surface of a planet with existing weapons. One Genesis torpedo could be more than several Birds of Prey of work, while beaming antimatter canisters onto the surface would do just as easily.

There's no need for it. Like using a nuke when a fire cracker would do.

 

[fireproof78]

We don't know how dangerous or costly it is to generate Proto-matter compared to just hitting the surface of a planet with existing weapons. One Genesis torpedo could be more than several Birds of Prey of work, while beaming antimatter canisters onto the surface would do just as easily.

There's no need for it. Like using a nuke when a fire cracker would do.

Use of destructive force on a large scale is rarely about need and does not change the fact that the Genesis Device works well as a weapon of war, something the Klingons would value.

 

[Kemaiku]

Use of destructive force on a large scale is rarely about need and does not change the fact that the Genesis Device works well as a weapon of war, something the Klingons would value.

Not if it's abilities cost them far more than it's worth, than to just use what they have perfectly well.

 

[fireproof78]

Not if it's abilities cost them far more than it's worth, than to just use what they have perfectly well.

True, but there no evidence that the Genesis torpedo is prohibitive in its development. The only rational behind not using it was politics, and the Federation's regarding it as a failure, even though it brought one person back to life.

I agree that there is no evidence for either side, but nothing strikes me in dialog as being a particular barrier to manufacture them as a weapon.

 

[Kemaiku]

True, but there no evidence that the Genesis torpedo is prohibitive in its development.

Saavik showed a near emotional responce at the sheer stupidity of using Promotmatter, implying no one in their right mind touched the stuff.

 

[fireproof78]

Saavik showed a near emotional responce at the sheer stupidity of using Promotmatter, implying no one in their right mind touched the stuff.

That's a Vulcan view, not a warrior one.

 

[BillJ]

Star Trek always has these super complicated doomsday devices, when you can just slam a big asteroid into a planet and destroy it.

 

[fireproof78]

Star Trek always has these super complicated doomsday devices, when you can just slam a big asteroid into a planet and destroy it.

How Babylon 5 of you.

 

[Vger23]

That's a Vulcan view, not a warrior one.

Oh I agree. The Klingons could care less about whether or not the resulting terraformed planet is stable or successful. They probably care a lot more about the destruction it causes when unleashed upon any planet that is not lifeless.

 

[BillJ]

How Babylon 5 of you.

Just being realistic. The various races waste a lot of time and energy on doomsday devices.

 

[DaveyNY]

I think the most important thing to remember is...,

That the Klingons KILLED THE ONE & ONLY GUY WHO KNEW EXACTLY HOW to Create The Device.
Even his mom didn't know the formula he used to make the torpedo work and Khan never found it either.
(all Khan got was the one and only physical testbed and he also caused the death of everybody but Carol, who had any intimate knowledge of the device's workings)

It probably isn't very advisable to just toss a bunch of "Protomatter" (what ever that is) at an extremely experimental device, without more than a bit of knowledge of exactly how said device works.

And David took that info with him, to his grave.

just sayin'

 

[Kemaiku]

That's a Vulcan view, not a warrior one.

She did say that everyone else reached the same conclusion. So it's not just hers.

And her race created Red Matter, so that says something.

 

[Vger23]

She did say that everyone else reached the same conclusion. So it's not just hers.

And her race created Red Matter, so that says something.

Well, specifically, she said "every ethical scientist in the galaxy..." which probably discounts Klingon scientists, who would be under the thumb of the warrior class.

 

[Tuskin38]

"These Are The Voyages" are all ALT-Universe

II find it easier to think that the holoprogram was not 100% accurate to history.

 

[fireproof78]

Just being realistic. The various races waste a lot of time and energy on doomsday devices.

Oh, I'm not arguing with you. Just remarking that B5 did something similar.

She did say that everyone else reached the same conclusion. So it's not just hers.

And her race created Red Matter, so that says something.

With respect, I think that ignores the weapons part of it. It doesn't have to be stable forever-just long enough.

It also doesn't change the fact that Saavik knew, or, as has been pointed out with the spore drive, that other races could not piece it together. The fact that proto-matter is so unstable and not used as a weapon or mentioned again is odd, to say the least, yet unsurprising given Trek's history.

II find it easier to think that the holoprogram was not 100% accurate to history.

There's no way it could be, unless Riker as Chef knew exactly what Chef was going to say. It comes across more as fan fiction than historical recreation.

 

[Tuskin38]

It comes across more as fan fiction than historical recreation.

or a historical reenactment

 

[BillJ]

The fact that proto-matter is so unstable and not used as a weapon or mentioned again is odd, to say the least, yet unsurprising given Trek's history.

I thought Protomatter got a mention in DS9?

 

[Vger23]

or a historical reenactment

Or a pile of gopher feces.

 

[BillJ]

I thought Protomatter got a mention in DS9?

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Protomatter

In 2370, Professor Gideon Seyetik used protomatter to reignite the star Epsilon 119. (DS9: "Second Sight")

Also in that year, the Maquis incorporated protomatter in an implosion device designed to overload the impulse drive of the Cardassian freighter Bok'Nor. (DS9: "The Maquis, Part I")

In 2373, a Changeling infiltrator impersonating Dr. Julian Bashir tried and failed to destroy the Bajoran sun with protomatter, trilithium and tekasite. (DS9: "By Inferno's Light")