Why no Constitution class ships in the 24th century?
- Thread starter WraithDukat
- Start date
Some parts? I would think that most of the ecology would still need to function, in order to provide enough food for all the people. In fact, I theorise that the majority of the planet would have to be given over to automated food production. That would explain the extreme overcrowding of the cities, since the population would have to be crammed into as small a space as possible in order to maximise the agricultural zones - it's a vicious circle.
Well if we watch the episode, he allcalls from the bridge after traveling from transporter room thru a hallway to a turbolift. After the intro credits we find him exploring another hallway in the ship listening to sounds. It is at this time where he says he's searched the entire ship. That would mean that Kirk could of had enough time (minutes to even hours) to check out each deck of the ship to conclude that he was alone until he stumbled upon Odona.
IMHO, the Gideons built a full-size and complete interior of the ship from detailed scans of either the Enterprise in orbit or of another Connie that was part of an earlier delegation.
As far as time goes, we only know that Kirk is missing 9 minutes from the point of beaming down to re materialization. How much time he spent searching appears to be open-ended and the interactions between the Gideons and the Enterprise doesn't have any connection to Kirk until much later in the episode.
It would take hours to maybe days to carefully search the ship.
As regards Gideonite construction, we know the planet is "shielded" from sensors, in addition to the use of sensors being "refused". Yet the heroes see visual imagery of the surface (which admittedly is reasonably clouded in both the original and remastered versions).
What we see features neither surface cities nor arable land in evidence. And fittingly enough, Hodin and Kirk later debate how the environmental conditions on Gideon were misreported to the UFP. Perhaps the surface is dead now, and all construction and cultivation is underground. Admittedly the place still has "beaches" and "mountains", filled with people. But the former aren't described as open-air resorts, and filling the latter would probably indeed involve digging...
Repurposing some government underground real estate, right next to the Council Chambers, would be the way to go. Perhaps the project would be the very reason for the aimlessly shuffling crowds at the Chambers? This shuffling might be expected in an important government building anyway, even at much lower population densities, but the extra aimlessness could come from sudden displacement for Reasons The Public Need Not Be Informed On.
Timo Saloniemi
What we see features neither surface cities nor arable land in evidence. And fittingly enough, Hodin and Kirk later debate how the environmental conditions on Gideon were misreported to the UFP. Perhaps the surface is dead now, and all construction and cultivation is underground. Admittedly the place still has "beaches" and "mountains", filled with people. But the former aren't described as open-air resorts, and filling the latter would probably indeed involve digging...
Repurposing some government underground real estate, right next to the Council Chambers, would be the way to go. Perhaps the project would be the very reason for the aimlessly shuffling crowds at the Chambers? This shuffling might be expected in an important government building anyway, even at much lower population densities, but the extra aimlessness could come from sudden displacement for Reasons The Public Need Not Be Informed On.
Timo Saloniemi
That would be the ideal, but unfortunately the editing of the episode doesn't bear this out. The order of events is:
- Kirk beams down into the Transporter Room
- He leaves and appears on the Bridge. He then voice calls the rest of the ship (we see Engineering, Sickbay and a corridor)
- Kirk is seen wandering a corridor. The voiceover log reveals that he has "searched every area of the ship" and that he has a memory lapse (later revealed to be 9 minutes)
- Cut to Gideon contacting Spock on the Bridge, who reveals that "Captain Kirk was transported down minutes ago."
I considered that. My thinking is that the times are not running in sync. I'll try to explain:
- Kirk beams down from Enterprise
- 9 minutes transpire (memory lapse)
- Kirk materializes in the transporter room of Gideonprise
- Kirk goes to bridge and calls the rest of the ship
- Cut to Intro credits
- Kirk is in a hallway listening to sounds and does the voiceover of searching the ship
- Kirk runs into Odona
Still, your argument is equally valid for Kirk - but with Spock showing up later I still think the episode suggests the entire ship interior was replicated. (If Kirk only tried to fly a shuttle out!)
An editing snafoo would not be completely out of left field (remember what they did to Enemy Within?) and really I wouldn't be surprised if Spock's conversation took place within those 9 minutes (his "minutes ago" would suggest 2 or 3 IMO).
However, we also need to bear in mind that Kirk's drugged stumbling around the fake Enterprise was being constantly monitored and he could easily be manipulated by the Gideonites into going down one corridor instead of another by the sound of a footstep or door closing.
You really think it was coincidence that he ran into Odona when he did? He was probably near the edge of the set!
However, we also need to bear in mind that Kirk's drugged stumbling around the fake Enterprise was being constantly monitored and he could easily be manipulated by the Gideonites into going down one corridor instead of another by the sound of a footstep or door closing.
You really think it was coincidence that he ran into Odona when he did? He was probably near the edge of the set!
So, how long did they look for Ben Finney when he first disappeared????
The ship kept track of individual heartbeats, and was able to eventually find Finney through a matter of exclusions... But I was wondering if the ship could do the same thing with the crew's bottoms, and track flatulence?
However, we also need to bear in mind that Kirk's drugged stumbling around the fake Enterprise was being constantly monitored and he could easily be manipulated by the Gideonites into going down one corridor instead of another by the sound of a footstep or door closing.
You really think it was coincidence that he ran into Odona when he did? He was probably near the edge of the set!
@Mytran, this would be a hilarious scenario if filmed where at the end of the episode Spock keeps narrowly missing Kirk and Gideonites on the same set. Just before Spock walks by Kirk and co move into a room, etc. But you'd have to cripple the tricorder's effectiveness and somehow have Spock not realize he is walking the same corridor over and over again
It was never stated. Also, if the ship was ionized like in "The Galileo Seven" then for a while they wouldn't have had sensors to aid in the search.
Star Trek meets Monty Python??
Agreed.
And it would add a sadly absent "comedy" episode to season 3, especially if they played up the absurdities of the Gideonite's plan
Rules of comedy would override that.But you'd have to cripple the tricorder's effectiveness and somehow have Spock not realize he is walking the same corridor over and over again
In the episode, it doesn't take Spock long at all to deduce that he is in a fake Enterprise. The scan of the structure probably popped up straight away on his tricorder and he just went to the Bridge to confirm his findings.[/QUOTE]
The name "Phase One Search" makes it sound like there would be more phases if the person was not found. That or they don't have another search until the cancelled TV sequel after the refit 
In other words, with 50-100 redshirts looking for Finney in major areas, including space near the ship, it may not have taken a few hours to find Finney, but Kirk is one man in the ship alone. He could not have searched an entire ship, even in a few hours if we accept the idea that the timing of the scenes is modified (which I like), unless he just walked most of the halls without going in each room.
In other words, with 50-100 redshirts looking for Finney in major areas, including space near the ship, it may not have taken a few hours to find Finney, but Kirk is one man in the ship alone. He could not have searched an entire ship, even in a few hours if we accept the idea that the timing of the scenes is modified (which I like), unless he just walked most of the halls without going in each room.
The key in the wording IMHO is that the Phase One Search does not assume the person wants to remain unfound...
So the basic steps would involve paging Finney, and checking the cameras for any folks lying unconscious on the floor. There would be no need yet to check the cameras for Finney-lookalike people standing upright and flat out refusing to answer the page.
Quick glimpses would then cover all the bases for Phase One: "thorough" would stand for simple Boolean, that is, is there something floating out there or not, is there something lying down there or not? No face recognition, no opening of doors, no tracking of biosigns (which quite clearly is something they never do routinely even though they demonstrably can, so it's a big deal when it's done in "Court Martial").
The writer really nicely preempts technobabble concerns here, with the wording eliminating any and all futuristic tracking methods because the heroes aren't at tracking mode yet.
Timo Saloniemi
So the basic steps would involve paging Finney, and checking the cameras for any folks lying unconscious on the floor. There would be no need yet to check the cameras for Finney-lookalike people standing upright and flat out refusing to answer the page.
Quick glimpses would then cover all the bases for Phase One: "thorough" would stand for simple Boolean, that is, is there something floating out there or not, is there something lying down there or not? No face recognition, no opening of doors, no tracking of biosigns (which quite clearly is something they never do routinely even though they demonstrably can, so it's a big deal when it's done in "Court Martial").
The writer really nicely preempts technobabble concerns here, with the wording eliminating any and all futuristic tracking methods because the heroes aren't at tracking mode yet.
Timo Saloniemi
Certainly not Matt Decker anyway. Will had potential...
