Nicholas Meyer Discusses Discovery

[TorontoTrekker]

I think it was around the lead up to DSC that he referred to TUC as ‘naive’, and related that - in hindsight - he was pretty uncomfortable with the mind-meld scene.

Well, the mind meld scene wasn't meant to be enjoyable for anyone, I'm sure. But leaving that to one side, his opinion of TUC must be a recent development, because during the 50th anniversary year, the Toronto International Film Festival invited him to appear at a screening of TWOK. I was there, and after the movie I approached him, thanked him for coming, and told him that TUC is my favourite Trek movie (which it is). His response was, "Thank you, I'm fond of it too." His reaction wasn't one of someone just being polite at receiving a compliment.

 

[Trekkin]

I didn’t say he hated it. I said he was critical of it.

That was kinda the entire point. Despite what Youtube discourse (including Midnight’s Edge) would have us believe, a person can be ‘less than flattering’ without being hateful, vengeful, incompetent, or bitter.

Edit: He mentions it here: https://au.ign.com/articles/2016/11...-nicholas-meyer-on-his-regrets-about-the-film. But I’m positive that the interview I’m thinking of in particular, was in Star Trek Magazine.

 

[Lord Garth]

I think it was around the lead up to DSC that he referred to TUC as ‘naive’

Nick Meyer shouldn't be too hard on himself. A lot of people were naive about the future in 1991. TUC, as much as I like it, is probably the most dated Star Trek film.

Before someone mentions "Save the whales!", that's not dated. Extinction and the danger of it, sadly, is still a thing. As is "I quit smoking". Punkers are back too. As if they ever left. One of my classmates in high school had a mohawk that put the punk's mohawk in TVH to shame... and this was the '90s!

 

[Vger23]

I have to be honest, and I know a LOT of people will disagree with me, but I think Nick Meyer is very overrated.

No question, he hit the ball out of the park with Wrath of Khan. What he did there was nothing short of God-like. But, TVH and TUC are my least-favorite TOS films and from a franchise perspective, I put several TNG and Kelvin films ahead of them as well. I think he is a lot less clever and learned than he believes himself to be.

 

[Rahul]

I have to be honest, and I know a LOT of people will disagree with me, but I think Nick Meyer is very overrated.

No question, he hit the ball out of the park with Wrath of Khan. What he did there was nothing short of God-like. But, TVH and TUC are my least-favorite TOS films and from a franchise perspective, I put several TNG and Kelvin films ahead of them as well. I think he is a lot less clever and learned than he believes himself to be.

First of all: He doesn't believe he is more clever than he is. He is very much open on his own shortcomings. In particular in regards to directing - where he said the more cerebral directing style of TWOK (which was often praised) was not a concious choice, but rather because that's the only way he knows to do. He's strengths are more as a writer - and even there, regarding certain story aspecst, he is very critical of his own work (see:TUC), while still being proud of what he achieved at the time. His glorification as "almost flawless" comes mostly from the fans - and they're right: He IS the most clever guy to handle Trek movies so far.

And second: With your opinion of TVH and TUC being "the least-favourite" TOS movies, you're pretty alone. Now - there's nothing wrong with that! But mind you, these movies are very well liked among the fandom, and the general concensus is that they are far superiour to most TNG movies (except mabye FC) and the Kelvin movies (Except maybe ST09).

Remember the general "odd movies good/even movies bad" rule? He is singlehandedly the constant part of the "even"-movies. That you personally don't really like his movies is well and fine, and nothing to be ashamed on. But it's just that, a personal opinion, and a minority one at that. In MY personal opinion, both the TNG and the Kelvin movies started out from a strong place (FC & ST09), but then quickly disappointed expectations, and are the reason why Star Trek movies nowadays are generally looked down upon, and why the concensus in the last years seems to be that "it's better on tv". Wheras the TOS movie era - despite the one and other weak movie - as a whole still holds up as probably the best movie era of the franchise. And Meyer is the one individual most responsible for that.

 

[Vger23]

First of all: He doesn't believe he is more clever than he is. He is very much open on his own shortcomings. In particular in regards to directing - where he said the more cerebral directing style of TWOK (which was often praised) was not a concious choice, but rather because that's the only way he knows to do. He's strengths are more as a writer - and even there, regarding certain story aspecst, he is very critical of his own work (see:TUC), while still being proud of what he achieved at the time. His glorification as "almost flawless" comes mostly from the fans - and they're right: He IS the most clever guy to handle Trek movies so far.

And second: With your opinion of TVH and TUC being "the least-favourite" TOS movies, you're pretty alone. Now - there's nothing wrong with that! But mind you, these movies are very well liked among the fandom, and the general concensus is that they are far superiour to most TNG movies (except mabye FC) and the Kelvin movies (Except maybe ST09).

Remember the general "odd movies good/even movies bad" rule? He is singlehandedly the constant part of the "even"-movies. That you personally don't really like his movies is well and fine, and nothing to be ashamed on. But it's just that, a personal opinion, and a minority one at that. In MY personal opinion, both the TNG and the Kelvin movies started out from a strong place (FC & ST09), but then quickly disappointed expectations, and are the reason why Star Trek movies nowadays are generally looked down upon, and why the concensus in the last years seems to be that "it's better on tv". Wheras the TOS movie era - despite the one and other weak movie - as a whole still holds up as probably the best movie era of the franchise. And Meyer is the one individual most responsible for that.

I agree with most of this...but I'm not so sure about him being convinced of his own shortcomings. He really does come off as pretty pretentious at times.

I definitely agree that he had a LOT to do with the success of the TOS movies, and for that I'm grateful. I just don't particularly care as much for TVH and TUC as most others do (admittedly). I thought the writing on his part of TVH was funny but kind of standard, and the writing on TUC was borderline awful and sloppy. I don't get as much out of those films as others do, and I totally recognize that's not a majority opinion!

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

Not in the least. "Possibly has an axe to grind" is supposition based on...really nothing at all. It equates "former staffer" with "disgruntled ex-employee," on no evidence, for purposes of undercutting Meyer because he may have said something less than flattering about STD.

So anyone who has straw-men to peddle should head on over in that direction.

Yes. The thread title is also a straw-man. As I mentioned in my post, the actual interview had nothing in it that included Meyer being critical of DSC -- nothing that even DSC apologists should be mad at Meyer about.

But the thread content also did not have any Meyer-bashing (the reason for my response to your statement of "...But it's a hoot that some of STD's defenders are so quick to throw Meyer overboard...").

 

[Christopher]

Before someone mentions "Save the whales!", that's not dated. Extinction and the danger of it, sadly, is still a thing.

In general, yes. However, humpback whale populations have recovered to the point that they're no longer considered endangered. That's one prediction of the future that I'm glad turned out wrong, and the attention TVH helped bring to the cause may have been a factor.

In particular in regards to directing - where he said the more cerebral directing style of TWOK (which was often praised) was not a concious choice, but rather because that's the only way he knows to do.

Cerebral? That's the last word I'd use for TWOK. TMP was cerebral -- TWOK is visceral, emotional, ultra-melodramatic, corny, and extremely stupid on a conceptual level.

 

[Rahul]

Cerebral? That's the last word I'd use for TWOK. TMP was cerebral -- TWOK is visceral, emotional, ultra-melodramatic, corny, and extremely stupid on a conceptual level.

Talkin' about the directing, not story: Camerawork, editing, holding shots, cutting and so on. That's pretty cerebral in TWOK.
(Just compare a simple "Kirk & Spock talking"-scene from TWOK with one from, say, ST09)

 

[NeoStar9]

Translation: They don't prostrate themselves before the altar of STD.

No. It means midnight's edge outright lie and take part in alt-right bs. This isn't about Discovery itself. You don't have to like Discovery to see how they outright lie. Then they try to mix in the most obvious things everyone has figured out to try and seem like they're legit. They makes tons of claims with no backup. When its completely clear what they claimed hasn't come to pass they lie more and move the goal post or try to act like they meant something else. If one really did dislike Discovery I would think they'd want actual genuine negative news to be talked about and not fake shit that makes them feel better and traps them in a bubble.

A broken clock can be right. It is possible for them to get a legit interview with said person not at all knowing their track record. The number of outlets seeking an interview with Meyer is extremely low. So I can give him a pass in doing the interview. That does not at all excuse ME from their track record and vileness. Nor does it mean traffic should be sent their way. Nor should anyone be acting as if this is an opportunity to spread their shit around.

 

[Lord Garth]

"If it bleeds, it leads." It's the first thing the professor taught us when I took a Newspaper Journalism course in college. I was also taught journalism is (supposed to be) "uncreative writing". Of course, that's just the textbook. Tabloids leave behind "uncreative writing" and just run with "If it bleeds, it leads". No story is too juicy. Especially if they can run with it and twist it to their favored viewpoint. It's how we get "infotainment".

 

[Christopher]

Talkin' about the directing, not story: Camerawork, editing, holding shots, cutting and so on. That's pretty cerebral in TWOK.

Whaaaaa?? That's not use of the word "cerebral" I've ever heard before.

 

[Admiral2]

No, they're just full of shit.

No, they outright lie. I mean pure up totally created lies. My fave, they claimed an inside source told them, that DSC was canceled( about 2 months before it aired mined you) and that the studio was in a panic and Meyer's had been brought in the make a new show to replace the failed DSC and maybe save the franchise.

Not a word of that was true

Even people who don’t like DSC very much think they’re full of shit.

No. It means midnight's edge outright lie and take part in alt-right bs. This isn't about Discovery itself. You don't have to like Discovery to see how they outright lie. Then they try to mix in the most obvious things everyone has figured out to try and seem like they're legit. They makes tons of claims with no backup. When its completely clear what they claimed hasn't come to pass they lie more and move the goal post or try to act like they meant something else. If one really did dislike Discovery I would think they'd want actual genuine negative news to be talked about and not fake shit that makes them feel better and traps them in a bubble.

A broken clock can be right. It is possible for them to get a legit interview with said person not at all knowing their track record. The number of outlets seeking an interview with Meyer is extremely low. So I can give him a pass in doing the interview. That does not at all excuse ME from their track record and vileness. Nor does it mean traffic should be sent their way. Nor should anyone be acting as if this is an opportunity to spread their shit around.

You know guys, if you took a minute out of your virtue-signaling time to actually watch the linked video you'd see that it isn't a hit piece of any kind. They just scored an interview with a man who's directed two hit trek films. Even the supposed Discovery discussion isn't much of a discussion. He neither praised nor condemned. He just basically said "Yep! It's there."

But whatever. Rag on Midnight's Edge all you want. I don't listen to it reg'larly anyway.

I prefer DOOOOOMCOCK!:

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[Rahul]

Whaaaaa?? That's not use of the word "cerebral" I've ever heard before.

English is not my first language (nor my second, actually,...), if you say this word isn't used in a context like this, I believe you.

But what I meant is his directing style is very deliberate, very slow, with lots of thought going into single shots and framing and staging, but not very much action or fast editing. Classic single camera directing style with a tripod. Not much dolly-shots, cranes, multi-camera set-ups or generally fast movements. And not many young actors running through the set and punching each other, but mostly older aged people having weighty conversations. I don't know if there's a better word to describe that than "cerebral", I thought it was fitting, but you're a writer, you tell me...

 

[cultcross]

Not in the least. "Possibly has an axe to grind" is supposition based on...really nothing at all. It equates "former staffer" with "disgruntled ex-employee," on no evidence, for purposes of undercutting Meyer because he may have said something less than flattering about STD.

So anyone who has straw-men to peddle should head on over in that direction.

I was meaning his appearance on ME, a click-hate channel, rather than anything in particular he said. He can say what he likes about Discovery, it just surprised me that a staff member had chosen to go on Midnight Edge and that he had been let go for season 2 helped explain that. I've said plenty about Discovery that was unflattering, and will continue to do so.

 

[Lord Garth]

I was meaning his appearance on ME, a click-hate channel, rather than anything in particular he said. He can say what he likes about Discovery, it just surprised me that a staff member had chosen to go on Midnight Edge and that he had been let go for season 2 helped explain that. I've said plenty about Discovery that was unflattering, and will continue to do so.

I'm sure we'll see eye-to-eye on the Georgiou Spin-Off.

 

[Mirror Mirror]

You know guys, if you took a minute out of your virtue-signaling time to actually watch the linked video

They, and doomcock are not worth a moment to view anything they put out. They burned those bridges with their endless bashing and lies.

 

[fireproof78]

You know guys, if you took a minute out of your virtue-signaling time to actually watch the linked video you'd see that it isn't a hit piece of any kind. They just scored an interview with a man who's directed two hit trek films. Even the supposed Discovery discussion isn't much of a discussion. He neither praised nor condemned. He just basically said "Yep! It's there."

I'm not willing to give them the clicks.

 

[Lord Garth]

Someone can provide the Cliff Notes.

 

[Mirror Mirror]

I'm not willing to give them the clicks.

Or infect your Youtube suggestions with them.