like in City on the Edge of Forever, once McCoy beamed down to the planet Kirk should've set the ship's phasers to stun and fire a blast into the area where McCoy was, like in A Piece of the Action. Then they could've just transported his unconscious body back to ship and taken him to Sickbay. There was no need to send a landing party at all
Sometimes they did things very inefficiently
- Thread starter Miramanee
- Start date
Wide area stun is such a nifty tool that the failure to use it in every episode warrants an explanation. And it's not difficult to come up with one: after all, we know that stun kills.
With a bunch of burly gangsters all in the open without protection, this is not a problem. But the intoxicated McCoy might not survive stun, while most enemies would be protecting themselves so that the stun would just kill the cute little babies and puppies before managing to stun the enemy troopers.
Of course "City" is also a special case in that the timey-wimey anomaly of the week messes up pretty much everything (except for the transporters - a rare event indeed!). If the ship can't even fly straight, could Kirk trust her to shoot straight? Or to locate McCoy before he choked in his own vomit?
It is also a bit doubtful whether firing the ship's guns straight at the mysterious anomaly really is a good idea...
Timo Saloniemi
With a bunch of burly gangsters all in the open without protection, this is not a problem. But the intoxicated McCoy might not survive stun, while most enemies would be protecting themselves so that the stun would just kill the cute little babies and puppies before managing to stun the enemy troopers.
Of course "City" is also a special case in that the timey-wimey anomaly of the week messes up pretty much everything (except for the transporters - a rare event indeed!). If the ship can't even fly straight, could Kirk trust her to shoot straight? Or to locate McCoy before he choked in his own vomit?
It is also a bit doubtful whether firing the ship's guns straight at the mysterious anomaly really is a good idea...
Timo Saloniemi
And it's not like they knew that he was gonna jump in a time portal and mess up history. They didn't see any reason to fire the ship's guns at him.
He had a phaser and was dangerously insane. Why send a landing party into harm's way?
Well, a landing party was going down anyway, and if anything, McCoy had just shown it was fairly safe to do so. Hunting down the CMO would be but part of the mission. And Kirk had already made mention of his priorities: the phenomenon had to be studied even if it meant losing the entire ship, hence the precautionary broadcasting of records. One landing party here or there... Pffft.
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
That just makes APOTA sound problematic, honestly. Sure, we see mostly burly gangsters out in the open, but we don't see the whole area that's targeted and it's literally right in the middle of a heavily populated area. For all anyone knows, there was a whole group of sick children on a field trip right around the corner.
Since when does stun kill?
To be really efficient: when McCoy beamed down without authorization, they should have just beamed him back up. Beam him directly to the brig or a secured room in Sickbay. The Transporter should be able to sort out his phaser and beam it up separately.
And have Spock standing by when he beams up to knock him out with the Vulcan nerve pinch
There is weird consistency on this issue, made explicit thanks to ST:ID now. Apparently, in adverse conditions, the tech doodads have real trouble getting a fix on somebody outside the starship, so beaming him up may be difficult there. But there's no trouble getting a fix on somebody already standing on the transporter platform, so beaming down is easy even in said conditions.
Now, it might be inconvenient if the sensors can't tell the contours of the target area at better than ten-inch resolution - Kirk might materialize above the ground or even inside it. But it's apparently and intuitively much worse if the machinery tries to grab somebody when its hold of that somebody is off by ten inches!
Beaming up folks who don't cooperate (by activating their communicators, say, perhaps even being required to press a special button there) happened really seldom in TOS. The only practical example of this is Plasus in "Cloud Minders", and that process was slow and awkward even when it concerned a more or less immobile man at a known location. Spock in "The Enterprise Incident" is a somewhat similar case, but he would have been cooperating to the best of his ability even when deprived of his communicator (perhaps trying to stand at the same spot where he was stripped of the gear, which is more or less what we see happen?).
Timo Saloniemi
Now, it might be inconvenient if the sensors can't tell the contours of the target area at better than ten-inch resolution - Kirk might materialize above the ground or even inside it. But it's apparently and intuitively much worse if the machinery tries to grab somebody when its hold of that somebody is off by ten inches!
Beaming up folks who don't cooperate (by activating their communicators, say, perhaps even being required to press a special button there) happened really seldom in TOS. The only practical example of this is Plasus in "Cloud Minders", and that process was slow and awkward even when it concerned a more or less immobile man at a known location. Spock in "The Enterprise Incident" is a somewhat similar case, but he would have been cooperating to the best of his ability even when deprived of his communicator (perhaps trying to stand at the same spot where he was stripped of the gear, which is more or less what we see happen?).
Timo Saloniemi
Can you beam someone up if they're moving or running?
Yup. That is, if your sensors get a fix.
In the earliest known in-universe instance, Archer in "Broken Bow" was running inside an installation and the Enterprise was moving wrt the installation; beaming worked just fine.
More generally, beaming targets are always in motion. If you stand still on the surface of a planet, you are moving really, really fast through space, and your angular velocity wrt a starship holding position directly above you will be massive anyway. Transporters always handle that with ease. We have also heard Torres in VOY "Maneuvers" claim she has transported people to a ship moving at warp. Indeed, she's confident she can repeat the feat at "a relative speed of two billion kilometers per second". Which means Scotty and Spock in the 2009 movie didn't come up with anything too radical after all...
Timo Saloniemi
In the earliest known in-universe instance, Archer in "Broken Bow" was running inside an installation and the Enterprise was moving wrt the installation; beaming worked just fine.
More generally, beaming targets are always in motion. If you stand still on the surface of a planet, you are moving really, really fast through space, and your angular velocity wrt a starship holding position directly above you will be massive anyway. Transporters always handle that with ease. We have also heard Torres in VOY "Maneuvers" claim she has transported people to a ship moving at warp. Indeed, she's confident she can repeat the feat at "a relative speed of two billion kilometers per second". Which means Scotty and Spock in the 2009 movie didn't come up with anything too radical after all...
Timo Saloniemi
Spock, in the first time travel episode, had called the bridge to ask Kirk if it was okay to turn off the tractor beam after the plane got crushed. I think it was the time travel episode. Time to re-watch season 1, of which most doing so isn't a chore for most, but I'd swear Spock really did contact the bridge as such pedantry, or "chain of command gone wild", on the issue. That and it'll be cool to see the CGI, if they show the plane getting crushed.
Seriously. Plane get crushed, Spock acts as it's no more important than opening a can of baked beans like how they did in "Blazing Saddles", and they may as well leave it on all the doo-dah-day as if they don't give a fart?
! (Well, that sorta does explain Star Trek V's comparative quietness, though McCoy's joke about Spock's digestive system was worth it...)
The writer had meant well, I'd think... it is in my top 5 season 1 stories, but that little scene always gets to me.
Seriously. Plane get crushed, Spock acts as it's no more important than opening a can of baked beans like how they did in "Blazing Saddles", and they may as well leave it on all the doo-dah-day as if they don't give a fart?
! (Well, that sorta does explain Star Trek V's comparative quietness, though McCoy's joke about Spock's digestive system was worth it...)The writer had meant well, I'd think... it is in my top 5 season 1 stories, but that little scene always gets to me.
I suppose it could be absolutely foolproof, but it seems like there would always be a certain statistical chance that an individual could be stunned right into a heart attack or something. Not to mention accounting for variations of non-human physiology.
In the sixth movie, stun at close range kills. If not with one shot, well the victim isn't going anywhere.
In TNG "Samaritan Snare", repeated stun kills if repeated often enough.
Even in TOS "Conscience of the King" already, it seems old Karidian dies of stun: that is the setting the gun would hold when the daughter grabs it from a guard, and she never adjusts it. And obviously the gun isn't set on vaporize, which was just about the only kill setting the heroes themselves ever used.
As for the gangsters, they do everything by the Book. That's their groove. The burly men posture, the dolls with the prams get indoors. I guess Kirk could bet on that, ans ask for the stun to be ramped up enough to assuredly bring down the goons.
Timo Saloniemi
In TNG "Samaritan Snare", repeated stun kills if repeated often enough.
Even in TOS "Conscience of the King" already, it seems old Karidian dies of stun: that is the setting the gun would hold when the daughter grabs it from a guard, and she never adjusts it. And obviously the gun isn't set on vaporize, which was just about the only kill setting the heroes themselves ever used.
As for the gangsters, they do everything by the Book. That's their groove. The burly men posture, the dolls with the prams get indoors. I guess Kirk could bet on that, ans ask for the stun to be ramped up enough to assuredly bring down the goons.
Timo Saloniemi
If you shoot them in the head. Remember, Burke and Samno had scorchmarks on their foreheads.
A wide area stun could also result in car crashes, people falling down stairs, etc.
The planet in COTEOF was lifeless except for McCoy
Hmmmm...you make a good point. By the time McCoy awakens from being stunned, he should be back to normal and start immediately badgering Spock.
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