If they had the opportunity to do that, why vest a starship captain with that sort of authority in the first place? Doesn't make much sense.
The Omega Glory...
- Thread starter Riker'sMailbox
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If they had the opportunity to do that, why vest a starship captain with that sort of authority in the first place? Doesn't make much sense.
How would they not have the authority to override Kirk's judgement? The whole point of higher-ups is to review and correct what they see as incorrect decisions by the people doing the actual work.
They were allowed to impose the sentence prescribed by law or service regulations after a finding of guilt in a proper proceeding.
In the Royal Navy, the captain could try minor offenses by the enlisted crew, such as drunkenness or sleeping on watch, by himself, and impose flogging up to twelve lashes, forfeiture of pay, stoppage of grog or disrating of most petty officers.
More serious offenses, and all charges against officers, required trial by court-martial, which had to be called by a fleet commander required at least five captains and/or flag officers. Death sentences had to be confirmed by the Admiralty in London, or by the fleet commander-in-chief if on a distant station. A well-known example from this period was the Bounty mutiny, where the frigate Pandora was dispatched to round up the mutineers and transport them back to be court-martialed, which it did but was wrecked on the return trip.
A ship's captain had no authority to punish civilians, except to deliver them to a court with jurisdiction.
The new and much smaller US Navy basically adopted the Royal Navy's legal system with minor modifications.
Keelhauling was not a legal punishment in the British or US navies, nor is there much record of it in navies at all. Though there is evidence that it was used as a form of torture in antiquity, by the time we are talking about it was more of a scary legend.
So would it seem in order for a starship captain to impose corporal punishment on a crew member? That was one of the things that strongly differentiated the mirror Starfleet.
Legally, he did. He dropped all charges.
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In "Turnabout Intruder" Lester (in disguise as Captain Kirk) was apparently able to order death sentences without higher authority without referring to admiralty.
Spock didn't even have a lawyer.
McCoy and Scott didn't even have a trial.
Looks like life was tougher in TOS Starfleet than in the Royal Navy back in the day except the flogging bit.
Spock didn't even have a lawyer.
McCoy and Scott didn't even have a trial.
Looks like life was tougher in TOS Starfleet than in the Royal Navy back in the day except the flogging bit.
And in "Court-Martial" where the accused did have counsel, the same officer who investigated the case and approved the charges also presided over the court. The idea that a British seaman in 1800 had a better chance at a fair judicial process than a 23rd century Starfleet officer is just not believable to me.
The practice and procedure of space law is a curious thing indeed. I won't even get into the nonsense in "The Menagerie" of Spock pleading guilty to all charges and specifications, then presenting a defense without a prosecution, and the board rendering a verdict after the plea was entered. But that's for another day.
No, instead, I'm going to address your points by "Court Martial", without at all arguing your conclusions about the superiority of 19th century due process in the Royal Navy.
Stone gave Kirk the option to object to the composition of the board and of counsel (no conflicts there, eh?):
Now, your biggest concern seems to be the apparent prejudice of the portmaster shown by authorizing the charges. While not completely escaping that defect, it might be that Commodore Stone, as president of the court, was a non-voting member. He might be there only to referee the proceedings. While not a completely satisfactory solution, it might suggest that a trial board composed of an even number could not be deadlocked.
Come cheer up, me lads, 'tis just a space opera.
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My concern is the potential for abuse by one individual. In the US we have police who investigate the case, a public prosecutor who decides whether the evidence justifies prosecution, a judge who runs the trial and the jury who decide the verdict. Commodore Stone held at least three and maybe of those four positions. The court in the episode seems more like the old Rocks and Shoals type, where the president of the court was like the jury foreman and had a vote. Under both the old system or the UCMJ, the senior officer who is convening authority for the court is not supposed to have any involvement in the prosecution or trial, so their rank and position won't influence the outcome. The ways that the system in "Court Martial" could run over the rights of the accused in the hands of a biased or unscrupulous individual is, I would hope, obvious.
Sure. It's not a deal-breaker for me, just something I don't find very credible.
I think it was the fact that Kirk was dishing out such harsh punishments and the like that tipped off Scotty and McCoy to the possibility of Spock's claims about Janice Lester being true!
JB
JB
On "Did he really 'let them go' though?", Kirk dropped the charges he/Starfleet might have held against the superman, that is, on the issue of trying to take over the starship, kill a captain, yadda yadda. We have no idea whether there were other charges against him, least of all charges that Kirk would have been aware of.
Even if we accept Admiral Marcus' manipulative claims in ST:ID as true, and Khan as a war criminal, we have no proof that those charges would still be standing. They are almost three centuries out of date, after all, and originally imposed by folks most of the Trek heroes speak of with disdain or disgust. Remarkably, nothing in the way of charges is even hinted at in "Space Seed", even though Khan's past is discussed in some detail and without shying away from the darker issues.
But "Omega Glory" shows that Starfleet falls hard on Starfleet captains if misconduct-even-with-good-excuses is suspected, and "Court Martial" shows the hard-line approach at work, too. Given the breadth of adventures we see, it follows either that Kirk does have exceptional authority, or that Kirk, wary of the system, hides his dark secrets well.
Separately, TOS remains more or less consistent in civilian criminals never facing punishment of any sort. Instead of fines or jail time, they get brainwashing (see Mudd's rap sheet or witness assorted murderers or -wannabes sent to treatment), while the same offense might see a Starfleet officer drummed out of the service or (in the broader Trek context) jailed for years or for life. Khan would not be a Starfleet officer, despite Kirk giving him the honorary shirt. What is the going rate for attempted genocide in the civilian world? According to DS9, it's six months of psychotherapy.
So Khan escaping justice never was the issue - justice and criminals only go together in the sense that if a victim seeks the former, he gets therapy for his criminal madness. Kirk's angle here would be the same as the original: "No knowledge of eighty Napoleons allowed to leak". Plus a general gist of noninterventionism: "Too bad we interrupted his voyage, let him now found this colony he always wanted to found", even though it's obvious the very idea only first occurs to Khan when Kirk forces it down his throat in the hearing.
Timo Saloniemi
Even if we accept Admiral Marcus' manipulative claims in ST:ID as true, and Khan as a war criminal, we have no proof that those charges would still be standing. They are almost three centuries out of date, after all, and originally imposed by folks most of the Trek heroes speak of with disdain or disgust. Remarkably, nothing in the way of charges is even hinted at in "Space Seed", even though Khan's past is discussed in some detail and without shying away from the darker issues.
But "Omega Glory" shows that Starfleet falls hard on Starfleet captains if misconduct-even-with-good-excuses is suspected, and "Court Martial" shows the hard-line approach at work, too. Given the breadth of adventures we see, it follows either that Kirk does have exceptional authority, or that Kirk, wary of the system, hides his dark secrets well.
Separately, TOS remains more or less consistent in civilian criminals never facing punishment of any sort. Instead of fines or jail time, they get brainwashing (see Mudd's rap sheet or witness assorted murderers or -wannabes sent to treatment), while the same offense might see a Starfleet officer drummed out of the service or (in the broader Trek context) jailed for years or for life. Khan would not be a Starfleet officer, despite Kirk giving him the honorary shirt. What is the going rate for attempted genocide in the civilian world? According to DS9, it's six months of psychotherapy.
So Khan escaping justice never was the issue - justice and criminals only go together in the sense that if a victim seeks the former, he gets therapy for his criminal madness. Kirk's angle here would be the same as the original: "No knowledge of eighty Napoleons allowed to leak". Plus a general gist of noninterventionism: "Too bad we interrupted his voyage, let him now found this colony he always wanted to found", even though it's obvious the very idea only first occurs to Khan when Kirk forces it down his throat in the hearing.
Timo Saloniemi
Omega Glory starts out okay with the mystery of the deserted starship, but then it descends rapidly into a mediocre episode. Pure Hokum.
The crystals looked like the rock salt we used in our water softeners.
I believe that is exactly what they used.
Yes, Tracy whooped Kirk. That makes me wonder.....is there any other TOS episodes where Kirk lost a fight?
only to Spock and the Gorn
Kirk actually won the fight against the Gorn. However he refused to kill his opponent when he had the chance - Kirk showed mercy to the defeated Gorn captain, which is what impressed the Metrons.
And Spock? Kirk only lost that fight because it was planned in advance. McCoy gave him the injection of "tri-ox" which allowed Spock to win the battle without actually killing Kirk.
Spock also beat Kirk up in "This Side of Paradise" and sent him flying in "The Naked Time."
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