The Omega Glory...

[BillJ]

As far as "Metamorphosis" goes, Hedford was already sick. A diversion caused her to pass before she got treatment. They buried her on the asteroid they landed on.

 

[Timo]

Exactly. And if they can deal with a Galactic Commissioner that way, it's trivial to write off a mere A&A Lieutenant as a casualty, or to state that an intruder did not survive his intrusion.

But Kirk lies in his logs, a lot. This is not in dispute. He admits to it himself, doing it right in front of the audience from the pilot episode on. It's just a matter of determining how much in each specific instance.

So, would Kirk lie in his logs about "Omega Glory"? He has plenty to accuse Tracey of, and nothing to hide in that respect. But safeguarding the honor of starship captains, as a profession even if not as individuals, appears to be a Starfleet priority, as in "Court Martial". Is this best achieved by exposing Tracey, or by covering it all up? Somehow, the track record of starship captains is immaculate as late in the game as aforementioned "Court Martial". And mutinies always unhappen. Kirk's logs would have to reflect the official truth on such issues, even if this called for censorship.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[BillJ]

...doing it right in front of the audience from the pilot episode on.

Captain's log, Star date 1313.8. Add to official losses, Doctor Elizabeth Dehner. Be it noted she gave her life in performance of her duty. Lieutenant Commander Gary Mitchell, same notation. I want his service record to end that way. He didn't ask for what happened to him.

Not exactly sure how the above constitutes a lie. Mitchell and Dehner were clearly no longer the same people they were before they crossed the galactic barrier.

 

[Commishsleer]

Kirk would have had to log Khan's fate. I doubt Spock would have agreed to faking days of logs and how would they have accounted for McGivers disappearance. I think Kirk logged the incident as it happened and let Starfleet decide in retrospect if Kirk's solution was satisfactory.
For one thing Kirk would have to warn people against visiting the planet. It would have been irresponsible not to.

I see Kirk as sort of an old West Marshall dealing out justice as he saw fit. If Starfleet had any issues they could have sent lawyers to Khan's planet seeing if they wanted to go to trial. But they looked like they had bigger issues to deal with (planet killers, giant amoebas, plagues etc) and Khan's people and McGivers had accepted their "punishment".
I think the fate of Khan's people would be insignificant in comparison to say if Kirk had to kill a million people on Deneva.
Kirk logged it and let Starfleet either rescue Khan's people or just warn people away from the planet.

Kirk didn't even have to lie in the logs with the Hedford situation. I'm a bit wary of entities taking over people's bodies but it seemed like Hedford was still in there somewhere and besides there was really nothing Kirk could have done to save Hedford (as an individual). He could have logged truthfully that she died and an alien entity took over her body.
Perhaps some hearty Federation scientists/doctors might have wanted to investigate the situation if they could get there without being killed.
I myself would have stayed the hell away from there (in case the alien entity wanted my fab body instead)..

 

[johnnybear]

Kirk as an old west style Marshal? Well like he said, he's the only law out there in space!
JB

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Phasersmoke. With Bones for Doc, Spock for Chester, and woman of the week for Kitty.

 

[suarezguy]

I thought it was a cool, entertaining surprise that Tracey was quite a good fighter and challenge despite being old.

 

[GNDN18]

I thought it was a cool, entertaining surprise that Tracey was quite a good fighter and challenge despite being old.

Morgan Woodward (b. 1925), would have been around 43 years of age when this was filmed. He might have been a little grey, but I'd hardly consider that "old."

 

[J.T.B.]

I see Kirk as sort of an old West Marshall dealing out justice as he saw fit.

But that wasn't really a thing. Even on the frontiers, a US Marshal was part-and-parcel with a system of territorial courts, in fact most of the marshal's duties were pushing paper as an administrative officer for the district court. "Popular justice" or vigilantism did occur, but almost always in the absence of law enforcement officials.

Thinking through the implications, the situation in "Space Seed" is just absurd. Kirk should never have been in the position to dismiss the charges in the first place as he was a victim of the criminal act and would have been recused from involvement in any credible legal system. That he had authority to dispense with the case of Lt. McGivers, a commissioned Starfleet officer, is equally hard to swallow. Much more in line with the role of an Old West marshal was "Mudd's Women," where Mudd was taken into custody to be delivered to judicial authorities.

 

[johnnybear]

Morgan Woodward (b. 1925), would have been around 43 years of age when this was filmed. He might have been a little grey, but I'd hardly consider that "old."

Strange though that he looked a lot older than his actual years in that episode and later on in the Planet of The Apes TV series Woodward actually dyes his hair dark brown for the episode The Horse Race and probably for the first time in his acting career looks younger than his determined age!
JB

 

[Ssosmcin]

People actually looked older then. Shatner at 35 looked older than I did at that age (but he was in better shape - thankfully, for me, we switched in the intervening years).

 

[scotpens]

I see Kirk as sort of an old West Marshall dealing out justice as he saw fit.

Conceptually, Kirk was supposed to be more analogous to a naval captain of one of the world's great sea powers in the 18th and 19th centuries.

When you consider it, the Enterprise is doing the same kind of job naval vessels used to do several hundred years ago. In those days ships of the major powers were assigned to patrol specific areas of the world's oceans. They represented their governments in those areas and protected the national interests of their respective countries. Out of contact with the admiralty office back home for long periods of time, the captains of those ships had very broad discretionary powers. These included regulating trade, fighting bush wars, putting down slave traders, lending aid to scientific expeditions, conducting exploration on a broad scale, engaging in diplomatic exchanges and affairs, and even becoming involved in such minor matters as searching for lost explorers or helping down-and-out travelers return to their homes.

 

[TIN_MAN]

Anyone have any idea what the title means? Or where it comes from? Always been a puzzler for me. A different way of saying "The Last Glory," which still doesn't resonate with me?

I read somewhere something that makes sense, to me at least.,That "Omega" refers to the fact that this worlds population fought the war that Earthlings avoided, that is, the war that "ended the world". And "Glory" refers to "Old Glory" -a nickname for the American Flag' because of its appearance after the omega war. Also, it helps to keep in mind that this episode was an "Independence Day" episode.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I read somewhere something that makes sense, to me at least.,That "Omega" refers to the fact that this worlds population fought the war that Earthlings avoided, that is, the war that "ended the world". And "Glory" refers to "Old Glory" -a nickname for the American Flag' because of its appearance after the omega war. Also, it helps to keep in mind that this episode was an "Independence Day" episode.

On March 1st?

 

[TIN_MAN]

Well, yes, sort of. Apparently this was the original intention by Roddenberry, or so I've read. Plus the draft script was originally written as a possible entry for the second pilot, so lots of things changed.

 

[GNDN18]

On March 1st?

Re-runs. They were thinking ahead.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re-runs. They were thinking ahead.

Genius!!!!

 

[Commishsleer]

Conceptually, Kirk was supposed to be more analogous to a naval captain of one of the world's great sea powers in the 18th and 19th centuries.

Yes!
And weren't those captains allowed to keel haul, lash and hang people/crew?
Letting McGivers choose her own fate doesn't seem that out-of-line with other actions of Kirk/Captain Tracey.
It would seem out of order for a modern naval captain but thats not what we are talking about here.

 

[Phaser Two]

But that wasn't really a thing. Even on the frontiers, a US Marshal was part-and-parcel with a system of territorial courts, in fact most of the marshal's duties were pushing paper as an administrative officer for the district court. "Popular justice" or vigilantism did occur, but almost always in the absence of law enforcement officials.

Thinking through the implications, the situation in "Space Seed" is just absurd. Kirk should never have been in the position to dismiss the charges in the first place as he was a victim of the criminal act and would have been recused from involvement in any credible legal system. That he had authority to dispense with the case of Lt. McGivers, a commissioned Starfleet officer, is equally hard to swallow. Much more in line with the role of an Old West marshal was "Mudd's Women," where Mudd was taken into custody to be delivered to judicial authorities.

That's absolutely right. Kirk was an O-6 rank in a military unit. He was obviously very special and quite skilled to say the least, but the idea that he had the authority to dispose of a group of 20th century superpowered war criminals by letting them go is preposterous.

Space Seed is one of the TOS eps - perhaps the most notable one, in fact - that's really good despite several gaping, and I mean seriously yawning, plot holes.

 

[BillJ]

That's absolutely right. Kirk was an O-6 rank in a military unit. He was obviously very special and quite skilled to say the least, but the idea that he had the authority to dispose of a group of 20th century superpowered war criminals by letting them go is preposterous.

Did he really "let them go" though? He marooned them and McGivers on what sounded like a stone age planet. Starfleet (if he reported, which I believe he did), had the opportunity to override his judgement and go retrieve them.