Jesus & Christianity

[Longinus]

The holiday known as "Christmas" is an intrinsically Christian celebration.

Other traditions that predate Christianity, that were celebrated around the winter solstice, and that were incorporated into Christmas festivities and/or arguably appropriated by early Christians, and characteristics of which survive in some capacity through today, well, those traditions are the ones that predate Christianity.

Christmas is not "just Yule with nameswap." Christmas has an important religious significance to Christians that the other earlier celebrations do not. It is not necessary to be a Christian to recognize that. In addition, Roman traditions such as gift-giving were handed down and incorporated into Christmas festivities; Yule is Germanic.

You're really not contradicting anything I said. Christians hijacked an existing tradition. The reason why Christmas is during winter solstice is because people were celebrating then anyway. And a lot of the earlier pagan stuff is still included. It is still literally called 'Yule' (or derivative of it) in many languages. And of course many non-Christians still celebrate Christmas/Yule; to many people it is just a nice tradition and any connections to superstitions, either Christian or pagan are purely ornamental.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Could aliens become christians?

Alternatively did Jesus exist on other worlds?

With God, all things are possible.

 

[Longinus]

OK but then howcome Q can meet God?

Q can timetravel, so he can go back to the time before Spock killed God with a Klingon photon torpedo.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Spock killed God with a Klingon photon torpedo.

That wasn't God.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Aight, the only reason the thread's stayed open this long is because nobody was debating religion. Let's keep it that way.

 

[Longinus]

That wasn't God.

Sure it was.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Sure it was.

Kirk correctly pointed out: what does God need with a starship?

 

[Longinus]

Kirk correctly pointed out: what does God need with a starship?

Let the guy self identify as he wants.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Let the guy self identify as he wants.

Exactly. So just because some random alien SAYS it's God, doesn't mean it actually IS.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

You're really not contradicting anything I said.

Yes, I am.

You're attempting to reduce Christmas to nothing other than preexisting non-Christian celebrations with the serial numbers filed off. I already agreed it's partly that, but it's other stuff besides, and it's also other stuff that is intrinsically Christian.

There are several tacks one can take on the appropriation idea. One is appropriation, but another is accommodation, and a third is incorporation. None tells the whole story. It's worth noting that Yule itself is a synthesis of Germanic, Nordic, and Anglo-Saxon traditions whose origins fade from our view into prehistory.

And, if you can't agree that Christmas means something to Christians that it doesn't mean to non-Christians, well... ... I don't know what to say.

 

[Longinus]

Exactly. So just because some random alien SAYS it's God, doesn't mean it actually IS.

Nah he was. Q is too, he said it himself and unlike the FF God he has powers to back it up too! It's a good thing that both Kirk and Picard knew how to handle aloof deities!

 

[Longinus]

Yes, I am.

You're attempting to reduce Christmas to nothing other than preexisting non-Christian celebrations with the serial numbers filed off. I already agreed it's partly that, but it's other stuff besides, and it's also other stuff that is intrinsically Christian.

There are several tacks one can take on the appropriation idea. One is appropriation, but another is accommodation, and a third is incorporation. None tells the whole story. It's worth noting that Yule itself is a synthesis of Germanic, Nordic, and Anglo-Saxon traditions whose origins fade from our view into prehistory.

And, if you can't agree that Christmas means something to Christians that it doesn't mean to non-Christians, well... ... I don't know what to say.

Of course it does but at this point it is much more, as you said yourself it is an amalgamation if many different traditions and different people celebrate it for many different reasons.

 

[Kerock]

Trelane was a God Child?

 

[Timo]

Could aliens become christians?

St. Paul got that out of the way already by deciding that non-Jews could be Christians. The rest is just details.

Alternatively did Jesus exist on other worlds?

Joseph Smith got that out of he way already by deciding that Jesus existed in the New World. The rest is just details.

Let the guy self identify as he wants.

And as the above two examples show, this is at the root of the "issue": until now, God or Gods have been identified exclusively by the followership, not by the entities themselves (who even in this outsourced identification typically are credited with settling for names such as "I am" and descriptions such as "I am who I am").

The mandate historically is on that who assumes the mandate. Will it go away when self-identifying becomes a thing?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Spot261]

St. Paul got that out of the way already by deciding that non-Jews could be Christians. The rest is just details.



Joseph Smith got that out of he way already by deciding that Jesus existed in the New World. The rest is just details.



And as the above two examples show, this is at the root of the "issue": until now, God or Gods have been identified exclusively by the followership, not by the entities themselves (who even in this outsourced identification typically are credited with settling for names such as "I am" and descriptions such as "I am who I am").

The mandate historically is on that who assumes the mandate. Will it go away when self-identifying becomes a thing?

Timo Saloniemi

You're planning on self identifying as God?

You don't need a starship by any chance?

 

[Spot261]

Kirk correctly pointed out: what does God need with a starship?

Damn you!

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Jesus is mentioned as Christ in Bread and Circuses - that is, the "Son of God" on 892-IV is likened to Christ, and the term "messiah" (Jewish term for Christ) twice in Trek - Q wants one for the Continuum, and Paris calls his and Torres' kid the Klingon messiah.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Christmas is basically two holidays now. The religious holiday about celebrating Jesus’s spring birth, and the secular holiday about presents, tree decoration and family traditions.

Atheists from Christian families and even some non Christians celebrate the secular one.

 

[Discofan]

The tree was never part of the Christian celebration, it was borrowed from non-Christian cults.

 

[johnnybear]

I thought it was very obvious that the entity in Star Trek V was not God! It was an alien life form that had been imprisoned or trapped behind the barrier and used the crew's desperation in finding their creator to free itself and create death and destruction across the galaxy! A bit like V'Ger in a way but the force was more similar to the Devil than God surely?
JB