Is Voyager Heavily Underrated?

[RassDavadCaras]

Even those who seem to dislike Janeway and Voyager, can we agree that the show clearly must have done something right for you to care this deeply? I mean anything that makes you think this much, surely is better than most dreck out there. Plus the opinions I have heard on Janeway & Voyager even that I disagree with, seem to really come from a very thoughtful place that suggests you guys really wanted to love it. Think about it, if the show was really bad, and she was really that bad of a Captain, I do not think we would be talking about this now. Even if I think its amazing and you think its the worst, it stuck with you, it made an impression. I also can't see how any of you could come up with such great points, if you did not see things you did like or wanted to like in it. Maybe the issue between those of us that love the show, and those that are harsh on it, is, in the end, we all see something great in this show, but we disagree on how it was executed. Maybe it is the Vulcan in me, but I think anything that creates this kind of discussion has to be more than the sum of it's parts.

 

[LJones41]

If you're looking for a true dictator, that would be Micheal Burnham who was not even a captain but constantly tried to take full control.

That was Michael's anxieties over the Klingons (thanks to her family's death) that got out of control.

How do you see her as flawed? This is my main issue with Janeway. Seems a little too perfect.

Kathryn Janeway perfect? Since when? If I thought she was perfect, I would have regarded her as boring. And I don't think she was.

I've definitely said this before, but I really wish they'd played up Janeway's sciencey background and had her less able when it comes to fighting and combat situations. Not much of a people person, more like Picard in that regard, so prone to isolation and not great at keeping up morale.

I don't understand this. Why would Janeway's personality have to be more like Picard, because of her past as a science officer? Wouldn't that be painting Janeway as some kind of cliche?

 

[Janeway_74656]

As a quick aside here... did y'all enjoy the video?

 

[cosmic mouse]

As a quick aside here... did y'all enjoy the video?

Yep. And your avatar pic is pretty phat too...

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Even those who seem to dislike Janeway and Voyager, can we agree that the show clearly must have done something right for you to care this deeply? I mean anything that makes you think this much, surely is better than most dreck out there. Plus the opinions I have heard on Janeway & Voyager even that I disagree with, seem to really come from a very thoughtful place that suggests you guys really wanted to love it. Think about it, if the show was really bad, and she was really that bad of a Captain, I do not think we would be talking about this now. Even if I think its amazing and you think its the worst, it stuck with you, it made an impression. I also can't see how any of you could come up with such great points, if you did not see things you did like or wanted to like in it. Maybe the issue between those of us that love the show, and those that are harsh on it, is, in the end, we all see something great in this show, but we disagree on how it was executed. Maybe it is the Vulcan in me, but I think anything that creates this kind of discussion has to be more than the sum of it's parts.

I can't speak for everyone, but for me it is less of a question of there being things that are good or bad in Voyager. Rather there is a constant frustration that good ideas were not fully developed. Too many times the Years of Hell became the Two-Parters of Hell. Ideas that needed time to germinate were wrapped up in 120 minutes, if we were lucky. Events and experiences that should have lingering consequences were ignored. The first and most obvious of these is the Maquis, whom Berman and Taylor admitted that they decided to make an effective non-issue as quickly as possible. Menosky and Braga apparently had a lot of interesting ideas to make longer stories that would have brought Voyager and its crew to a different place, but Berman simply would not allow them the space to let those stories evolve. The most obvious was the Year of Hell, which wasn't only supposed to be a period of hardship, but also a period in which the crew would take on a lot of alien tech, making the ship more unusual and foreign. There was also Workforce, based on an idea Braga had about the crew having to stop on a planet for an extended period and the problem of extricating from the relationships they would develop. (Braga would get his chance in Enterprise's third season.) I think that these features become more problematic as one transitions from being a casual viewer to a fan of the series and the franchise.

 

[HugeLobes]

I don't understand this. Why would Janeway's personality have to be more like Picard, because of her past as a science officer? Wouldn't that be painting Janeway as some kind of cliche?

Not entirely like Picard. Just more of an academic, slightly apart from the crew, and maybe not as confident in combat situations as other captains. Would have made inter-ship relationships more interesting, especially the relationship between Maquis and Starfleet, and I think it would have focused Janeways's character to have more flaws.

Part of the problem with being captain of a ship has been the isolation, which would have been great to explore given Voyager's unique situation.

 

[Hey Missy]

The second season actually has the strongest continuity and plenty of recurring characters. After that, they seemed to have stopped caring.
For example, Hogan appeared in eight(!) episodes in Season 2 before he was ultimately killed off. If it were say, Season 6, he would've been eight different one-off dudes.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

The second season actually has the strongest continuity and plenty of recurring characters. After that, they seemed to have stopped caring.

They cared about some things more than others. They couldn't keep around a few Maquis crewmen, but they could adopt Borg children. They couldn't develop Janeway's Victorian holonovel, but hey, [STRIKE]Flash Gordon[/STRIKE] Captain Proton!

But credit where credit is due. They may have emotionally airlocked the Maquis, but at least they had two episodes that attended to how military organizations initiate people and build group identity: Learning Curve and Good Shepherd. We see the types of activities used to promote efficiency and a sense of common purpose. What series did not do that? Battlestar Galactica, the one reputed for its military realism.

 

[Farscape One]

That was one odd thing I noticed in season 2... most of the crew deaths from that year were Maquis.

Starfleet: Crewman Darwin, Ensign Bennet
Maquis: Kurt Bendera, Michael Jonas, Lon Suder, Hogan

At least two others mentioned in "ALLIANCES", but were not identified as either Starfleet or Maquis.
One unknown in "BASICS, PART II", when the cave monster ate him... couldn't tell.

(Despite it airing as the season 3 premiere, that episode was the last filmed for season 2, so I count it as such. Same goes for the season 1 episodes that were held over. I always have done that and always will.)

The thing that did bother later in the show was season 7's "REPRESSION". In the Mess Hall, all the Maquis gathered, and it FILLED the room. Looked like over 30 people there. I didn't Dalby, Gerron, or Henley, but Chell was there. Add the above dead, plus Seska and Tuvok since they were spies on that ship... that's close to 40. That's a LOT of people on that tiny ship we saw in the pilot.

Did the Maquis get their hands on a TARDIS?

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Chell was there.

Chell was a prosthetic player. They were going to get their money's worth.

 

[Janeway_74656]

Yep. And your avatar pic is pretty phat too...

Thank you! And I'm glad you enjoyed the vid. Probably my favorite Voyager video on Youtube.

 

[suarezguy]

I can't really take the Janeway is a Dictator idea seriously at all. She commanded the ship, as someone had to, and she was by far the most qualified and acceptable to do. She didn't rule the ship with an iron fist. Repeatedly, she gave people the opportunity to leave if they wished.

I believe the only time that option was given was The 37's.

 

[suarezguy]

Another case of Voyager gets bashed for things the other shows get away with, perhaps?

Picard is often attacked as being preachy and, though less often, Kirk and Sisko as self-righteous-and those views tend to significantly hurt people's ability to enjoy their whole series.

 

[Farscape One]

Chell was a prosthetic player. They were going to get their money's worth.

He appeared only twice, "LEARNING CURVE" and "REPRESSION". Cost is always a factor for shows, and he would be the most expensive of those 4 from the former episode simply because of the makeup/prosthetics. I think all the others were likely not available. It was just odd to me, though.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

He appeared only twice, "LEARNING CURVE" and "REPRESSION". Cost is always a factor for shows, and he would be the most expensive of those 4 from the former episode simply because of the makeup/prosthetics. I think all the others were likely not available. It was just odd to me, though.

You're right! I had read the Memory Alpha entry and hadn't noticed that he was mentioned far more than he appeared.

 

[Lance]

Chell was, of course, in the Elite Force video games too.

 

[cosmic mouse]

Thank you! And I'm glad you enjoyed the vid. Probably my favorite Voyager video on Youtube.

The music used was appropriate to the visuals/theme of the vid. It added to the dramatic feel.

 

[RassDavadCaras]

I can't speak for everyone, but for
me it is less of a question of there being things that are good or bad in Voyager. Rather there is a constant frustration that good ideas were not fully developed. Too many times the Years of Hell became the Two-Parters of Hell. Ideas that needed time to germinate were wrapped up in 120 minutes, if we were lucky. Events and experiences that should have lingering consequences were ignored. The first and most obvious of these is the Maquis, whom Berman and Taylor admitted that they decided to make an effective non-issue as quickly as possible. Menosky and Braga apparently had a lot of interesting ideas to make longer stories that would have brought Voyager and its crew to a different place, but Berman simply would not allow them the space to let those stories evolve. The most obvious was the Year of Hell, which wasn't only supposed to be a period of hardship, but also a period in which the crew would take on a lot of alien tech, making the ship more unusual and foreign. There was also Workforce, based on an idea Braga had about the crew having to stop on a planet for an extended period and the problem of extricating from the relationships they would develop. (Braga would get his chance in Enterprise's third season.) I think that these features become more problematic as one transitions from being a casual viewer to a fan of the series and the franchise.

I do not think being a fan of the series would make Voyager problematic, to suggest only casual fans see nothing wrong with Voyager is a bit insulting. I do agree with your points, and the things that could have been done sound epic. Yet, I still think the show we got is very, very good thanks to great performances and characters. When it comes down to it, we can all pick apart pretty much any show, even shows we love, it is much harder to simply enjoy something for what it is. I have seen so many bad shows, and bad spinoffs, Voyager never insults the brand and the characters are original and charming, as far as I am concerned that makes it pretty great, but I know some will disagree, just as some prefer any one of the other Trek shows. If we compare Voyager to TOS or TNG, the quality and length of storylines is not that different. TNG may have had more long-term consequences, but other than that most storylines were wrapped up in two-parters or even one part. So I think it really has more to do with our subjective love of a certain crew than the quality of the show really. All the criticisms leveled at Voyager can fit any of the other shows pretty well.

 

[Discofan]

I think they should have made a great deal more stories about the difficulties of having a mixed crew on board. In fact, the first and second seasons should have been much less about bozos like the Kazon and more about problems arising from the differing point of views about what to do when faced with such or such problem. Why is it that when Janeway makes a disputable decision, it is never disputed? One would think that at least some of the Maquis would have something to say about it. I think in this domain the writers got it all wrong and that's too bad.

 

[marlboro]

I can't say whether it's underrated or overrated, but I can say that I think it's a mistake for any Trek fan to just dismiss the show out of hand. There are some very good episodes in this series, and Trek fans are missing out if they don't give the show at least one complete runthrough.

I've been sticking to Treklit for the most part these days, but I just read a pretty good Voyager book (The Nanotech War) and it's made me want to revisit the series.