DC Movies - To Infinity and Beyond

[DigificWriter]

Then why use them for a mission where her own life was at stake?

Her life wasn't at stake; that's the point... and it's the entire reason the Squad is pissed off at her and in that bar about to drink themselves into oblivion.

So all the money and effort was put into something she suspected would fall apart from the start? What kind of a wastrel is this idiot?

Waller's a narcissist and a megalomaniac, not a wastrel or an idiot. She used the Squad as "human experiments" to see what they would do and whether or not they'd kill each other or be forced to work together, hoping for the latter so that she could feed her own ego and prove her skeptics wrong, but being smart enough to recognize the former as a definite and more concrete possibility.

 

[Anwar]

Her life wasn't at stake; that's the point... and it's the entire reason the Squad is pissed off at her and in that bar about to drink themselves into oblivion.

I think they were more pissed she was the cause of the entire incident to begin with. Her life WAS at stake otherwise she wouldn't have felt embarrassed enough to kill all the others present so she could get away with everything and then Enchantress captures her anyways.

Waller's a narcissist and a megalomaniac, not a wastrel or an idiot. She used the Squad as "human experiments" to see what they would do and whether or not they'd kill each other or be forced to work together, hoping for the latter so that she could feed her own ego and prove her skeptics wrong, but being smart enough to recognize the former as a definite and more concrete possibility.

And if they did fail and all kill each other...she dies. Which is almost what happened anyways.

 

[DigificWriter]

I think they were more pissed she was the cause of the entire incident to begin with. Her life WAS at stake otherwise she wouldn't have felt embarrassed enough to kill all the others present so she could get away with everything and then Enchantress captures her anyways.

No, she killed everyone else in that room to ensure that they didn't 'give away the game' to anyone who could've conceivably used the fact that she was so callous with people's lives to shut down a program that they only begrudgingly allowed her to pursue in the first place.

And if they did fail and all kill each other...she dies. Which is almost what happened anyways.

Again, no, because the Squad wasn't her only means of "escape" and she was never in any real danger in the first place.

 

[Anwar]

No, she killed everyone else in that room to ensure that they didn't 'give away the game' to anyone who could've conceivably used the fact that she was so callous with people's lives to shut down a program that they only begrudgingly allowed her to pursue in the first place.

Then why bother having them there in the first place?

Again, no, because the Squad wasn't her only means of "escape" and she was never in any real danger in the first place.

She was, otherwise she never would've been captured by Enchantress by the climax.

 

[JD]

But that does provide any sort of motivation to ignore continuity, was my point. All the characters are in a very workable situation to jump right into a sequel.

I don't think it's so much that they have a problem with where things ended with the first one, it's just that they want to give Gunn complete freedom to do whatever he wants.

 

[DigificWriter]

they want to give Gunn complete freedom to do whatever he wants.

Which can be done without throwing the first movie's events out the window.

 

[JD]

Of course, but I can also see wanting to let Gunn be Gunn.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

^ The proof of Waller's intent exists in the resolution of the Squad's "mission" itself, and provides the entire motivation for them going after Enchantress and Incubus in the first place. Flagg wants to get June back, but the others sign on after Harley convinces them not to let Waller manipulate them and then toss them aside.

It's not "telegraphed", but once we learn that Waller was the person they were sent to "rescue", the last piece of the puzzle falls into place and her intent becomes crystal clear.

Just because you keep repeating it doesn't make it true. It's not crystal clear at all, though it is an interesting idea that works well with the movie.

No, she killed everyone else in that room to ensure that they didn't 'give away the game' to anyone who could've conceivably used the fact that she was so callous with people's lives to shut down a program that they only begrudgingly allowed her to pursue in the first place.

Again, no, because the Squad wasn't her only means of "escape" and she was never in any real danger in the first place.

The first paragraph here is 100% true. It never even occured to me in the slightest that her actions there had anything to do with 'embarassment'. Though I personally interpreted it less as her worrying about people seeing how callous she is and more as those people weren't cleared to know about the Squad's existence, but I'd have to rewatch to see which explanation makes more sense.

The second point is arguably what she believed, which would be good enough for explaining her actions, but it's obviously objectively not true. If the Squad hadn't defeated Enchantress, she would have been dead at the end of the movie.

Which can be done without throwing the first movie's events out the window.

I doubt there will really be much throwing out going on at all. Like I said already, the story of the first movie doesn't matter to any sequel, anyway. It was always going to be the characters that were the shining through line of this series. Worst case scenario, imo, they drop Leto and maybe Flagg/June and just keep telling Squad stories with the rest plus new people. Probably they ignore the Waller/Wayne post credits scene, since JL flopped, Affleck's future is uncertain and JL vs. SS never made any sense to begin with. The events of the movie will likely still have happened as shown, they just won't be mentioned much, if at all, which probably would've been true regardless.

 

[JD]

That would probably be the best way to go about it.
The story right now on the reason for the director change is that original director Gavin O'Connor's story was almost identical to Birds of Prey, and when that got to OK to move ahead, he "fell off the project".

 

[DigificWriter]

1) I don't know where this idea that the SS post-credits scene was setting up a JL vs SS story came from, but that's not what was happening at all.

2) Suicide Squad's overall plot is made up of three disparate "stories within a story" that end up converging almost by happenstance. The first "story within a story" is Waller using Incubus and Enchantress to create a "field test" for the Squad in order to see whether or not they will turn on each other or be forced to work together; the second "story within a srory" is The Joker searching for Harley; and the third "story within a story" is the Squad deciding to risk their own lives to help Flagg rescue June from Enchantress. Waller getting captured by Enchantress is a "ripple effect" from the first of these "stories within a story", but is otherwise unconnected to any of them and has little effect on them.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I don't think it's so much that they have a problem with where things ended with the first one, it's just that they want to give Gunn complete freedom to do whatever he wants.

The opportunity to make a successful sequel, potentially more successful than the original, would be a good reason to start anew, yeah.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

1) I don't know where this idea that the SS post-credits scene was setting up a JL vs SS story came from, but that's not what was happening at all.

Waller: You look tired. You should stop working at nights.

Batman: [warning Waller] You should shut it down, or my friends and I will do it for you.

That's where it comes from.

2) Suicide Squad's overall plot is made up of three disparate "stories within a story" that end up converging almost by happenstance. The first "story within a story" is Waller using Incubus and Enchantress to create a "field test" for the Squad in order to see whether or not they will turn on each other or be forced to work together; the second "story within a srory" is The Joker searching for Harley; and the third "story within a story" is the Squad deciding to risk their own lives to help Flagg rescue June from Enchantress. Waller getting captured by Enchantress is a "ripple effect" from the first of these "stories within a story", but is otherwise unconnected to any of them and has little effect on them.

I agree, as long as we're not attributing ridiculous amounts of control over Enchantress to Waller. IOW, Waller didn't 'create' the field test as it existed. She took advantage of the opportunity provided by the Enchantress' actions (which the Enchantress took entirely on her own) to hold her field test.

 

[DigificWriter]

Waller: You look tired. You should stop working at nights.

Batman: [warning Waller] You should shut it down, or my friends and I will do it for you.

That's where it comes from.

Nothing I have ever read or seen indicates that this line was meant to hint at JL vs SS, so that's just idle and baseless speculation.

I agree, as long as we're not attributing ridiculous amounts of control over Enchantress to Waller. IOW, Waller didn't 'create' the field test as it existed. She took advantage of the opportunity provided by the Enchantress' actions (which the Enchantress took entirely on her own) to hold her field test.

I originally thought that Enchantress was acting of her own volition - just as you do - until I realized that Waller was already in Midway City when June "lost it" and "went AWOL", and we'd already been shown that Waller could 'trigger' Enchantress' transformation, so I stand by what I said.

 

[Anwar]

Nothing I have ever read or seen indicates that this line was meant to hint at JL vs SS, so that's just idle and baseless speculation.

Bruce threatening Waller wasn't enough? You need someone to make an operatic monologue about it?

I originally thought that Enchantress was acting of her own volition - just as you do - until I realized that Waller was already in Midway City when June "lost it" and "went AWOL", and we'd already been shown that Waller could 'trigger' Enchantress' transformation, so I stand by what I said.

You're making excuses for Waller's stupidity and the films' stupidity.

 

[DigificWriter]

Bruce threatening Waller wasn't enough? You need someone to make an operatic monologue about it?

I'm sorry, but JL vs SS is a storyline that people involved with the DCEU would've talked about - even in passing - if it were even remotely something that they were setting up.

You're making excuses for Waller's stupidity and the films' stupidity.

I'm not, actually; I'm pointing out what the movie presents. You're the one who's taking exception to it and calling it "stupid".

 

[JD]

I've seen the movie twice, and I never saw any of what you're talking about. I really think you're reading a lot into it that just isn't there, and trying to make things seem a lot deeper than they really are. Now don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed them both, but after watching both SS and Bright, I really don't think Ayer is that deep.

 

[Anwar]

I'm sorry, but JL vs SS is a storyline that people involved with the DCEU would've talked about - even in passing - if it were even remotely something that they were setting up.

You mean like how BvS was setting up an "Evil Superman" story that went nowhere?

I'm not, actually; I'm pointing out what the movie presents. You're the one who's taking exception to it and calling it "stupid".

You're trying to present the films' contrivances and coincidences as something deliberate.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Nothing I have ever read or seen indicates that this line was meant to hint at JL vs SS, so that's just idle and baseless speculation.

The line doesn't hint at it. It pretty much says it straight out. I never said there was any well developed plan for a JL vs SS movie. But the line is right there, and it says what it says, so if they weren't thinking about the possibility then someone screwed up the script.

I originally thought that Enchantress was acting of her own volition - just as you do - until I realized that Waller was already in Midway City when June "lost it" and "went AWOL", and we'd already been shown that Waller could 'trigger' Enchantress' transformation, so I stand by what I said.

So Waller set her most powerful asset free on purpose with no plan to get her back and no plan to stop her from murdering half the planet just to create a test situation to see if her gang of criminals could get along and follow orders? No, thanks. That's even worse than Luthor's Doomsday contingency.

I'll stick with Waller lost her most powerful asset and took the opportunity to use it as a test situation because life gave her lemons. That's just the perfect amount of callous pragmatism for her.

 

[JD]

The line doesn't hint at it. It pretty much says it straight out. I never said there was any well developed plan for a JL vs SS movie. But the line is right there, and it says what it says, so if they weren't thinking about the possibility then someone screwed up the script.

I don't think it was saying that they are doing it, but it definitely does open up the possibility of it in the future.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I don't think that scene was specifically setting up a Justice League vs Suicide Squad movie anymore than I thought the credit scene in the first Guardians of the Galaxy was setting up a Howard the Duck movie. I think it was just reinforcing that these characters live in the same world, they know each other, and they don't like each other very much.