Production Order Group Viewing 2018

[Commishsleer]

Agreed; there are loads of good action sequences in TOS, but Cestus III is one of the best if not the best. The little touches like "they're moving," the Gorn locking on to Spock's tricorder, Kirk's fantastic zigzags, Kelowitz giving estimated firing coordinates . . . it's awesome.

Yes its a great episode.
I also like it where Spock mentions Space Legends this far out. Makes space seem big and scary.
Its interesting Spock's conflict with Kirk in pursuing the Gorns in contrast with his opinions in the "Balance of Terror". While I think Kirk was right in his actions for the wrong reasons - the Federation needed to know about the Gorns before more lives were lost. Of course all the Federations lives on the Enterprise would have been lost if Kirk had lost the fight.
My two main issues are the Gorn costume - this is what people point out to me as the reason they scoff at Star Trek and how the Gorn tricked the Enterprise into bringing down their tactical people to the planet. I would think that such a message would have to be coded.

 

[Maurice]

Compare the Gorn costume to other alien suits of the time and it's actually pretty good. I think the sparkly metallic eyeballs were a mistake, though. They should have left the glassy orbs that were originally in it.

 

[Mytran]

THE ALTERNATIVE FACTOR

This episode gets a lot of flak but in truth is a wonderfully high concept story...just not implemented very effectively at times. It's slightly reminiscent of the sort of tale we'd see in the Twilight Zone, just one that happens to feature our favourite Star Trek characters. The sombre tone at the end is a stark contrast after the preceding wild shenanigans and feels entirely appropriate.

In other thoughts:

• Wow, back to Vasquez rocks again already???
• Spock’s initial report says that Lazarus’ planet has an oxygen-hydrogen atmosphere. That sounds explosive!
• Lazarus' beard thinning / thickening is really distracting throughout.
• Most awesome put-down from Spock ever: "I’ve simply made the logical deduction that you are a liar”

The workplace apathy on the ship continues to amaze me. Lazarus sits there in the crew room in full view, wearing clothes that scream “I do not belong here” and no-one bats an eyelid!
Although maybe someone did report his presence to the Bridge – McCoy and Kirk find him pretty easily a few moments later.
Regardless, the chief of security needs to be fired.

Starfleet's expansion from treating 900 light years as a significant distance (in Squire) to 22 parsecs being an afternoon's jaunt (Arena) continues this week as the "winking out effect" is felt in every quadrant of the galaxy and far beyond(!). Commodore Barstow then evacuates an area of 100 parsecs around the Enterprise; that is 145 million cubic light years!
I'm starting to wonder if "parsec" actually refers to some other unit of measurement in the Star Trek universe...

I never gave much credence to Lazarus’ claim of being a time traveller (since he is generally batso), especially as the phenomenon which precedes his arrival are exactly the same as all the other times he enters/exits the "alternative warp" between universes. Within the context of the episode, it seems most likely that both Lazaruses were fighting in the magnetic corridor together since before the Enterprise arrived and then one escaped to the planet just in time to meet the crew.
Incidentally, following the 1½ million light year spanning initial effects of the winking, do subsequent occurrences not register on Spock’s sensors? In at least 4 cases it happened on board ship!

Spock’s speculation about the anti-matter universe makes little sense and the proposition of “total annihilation” should the two Lazaruses ever meet is scientifically absurd – therefore I interpret the whole exchange as an extended analogy. It is a testament to the “good” Lazarus’ intellect that he picks up on this straight away

Both Lazarus ships appear to be linked across the “alternative warp”, since destroying one destroys the other.
I suppose

 

[Poltargyst]

The Alternative Factor

Whoo-boy, buckle up for this one 'cause it's weird.

Watching this as a kid I never had a clue what this episode was about. Not sure I do now.

So Crazy Lazarus is our Lazarus. The sane Lazarus is Anti-Laz. And Crazy Laz says Anti-Laz killed his whole civilization. That provides motivation for Crazy Laz, but is it even true? It doesn't seem relevant for the rest of the episode.

Spock has a cold...in some scenes.

Kirk: "Where's Lazarus?" McCoy: "It's a big ship, I'm just a simple country doctor." What a weird answer. And McCoy doesn't know where he is? Visitors just get to walk unattended around the ship?

How do the Lazerii get into and out of the corridor? They use their ship to go in I guess, but they seem to get randomly pulled there as well and they don't reappear from their ships as they can just appear on Enterprise apparently. Can you reappear from the corridor wherever you want?

Kill! Kill! Kill! Kill! Kill! Great lyrics.

Kirk shouldn't be so skeptical of McCoy's confusion about Laz's disappearing scar given his own Enemy Within experience.

How does Laz know just where to find dilithium crystals on the ship? This place needs better security.

Is that Vazquez Rocks again? Did they shoot all of the Vazquez Rocks location episodes back to back while they were there?

How is Laz not dead after that fall?

McCoy conveniently dismissing the guard so that Laz can roam freely again. The heavy hand of the writer is too apparent in this episode.

Exposition provided by Kirk and Spock complete with fantastic (but true) leaps in logic. Heavy hand of the writer indeed.

"When two identical particles of matter and antimatter meet..." Total protonic reversal. Don't cross the streams!

Okay, which Laz was on the Enterprise first, and when the other Laz appears and takes his place, why does he act like he's familiar with Kirk and the Enterprise?

How does Laz know how to sabotage just the right thing to smoke out just the room he wants to steal the crystals. The crewmen leave in some discomfort. Laz just cruises on in to a smoke-filled completely unfamiliar room.

Kirk: "He's probably beaming down now." Doesn't have much faith in ship's security, does he? Then again, I can see why.

Does the other universe that Kirk goes to have another Enterprise and Kirk? Where's Anti-Kirk?

Isn't anyone going to help Kirk get Crazy Laz into his ship? Spock and the guards buy popcorn and watch the show.

"What of Lazarus?" Indeed. And what of my sanity after watching this episode?

Imagine. Trapped in that corridor for eternity. Having to watch this episode over and over...

What if they just put Crazy Laz in the brig and with Anti-Laz on his planet, destroy the ship so there's no way for Crazy Laz to get to Anti-Laz?

This is a real 60's psychedelic episode..

Alien Watch! They look human, have the same body temperature and Spock calls him human, but they're from that planet, so I guess they're aliens?

Talosians
That big ugly Rigellian guy Pike fought in illusion
Vina as an Orion girl in illusion
Glimpse of other aliens captured by Talosians
Ron Howard's brother
That dog from Enemy Within
Salt monster
That hand plant...Gertrude
Spock (duh)
Charlie's parents (Thasians)*
Romulans!
(Ruk)
Miri's planet kids (bonk bonk)
Giant ape creatures of Taurus II
Shore Leave Caretaker guy
Trelaine and his folks*
Gorn
Metrons*
The Lazerii

*Alien Watch sublist: omnipotent aliens!

 

[Poltargyst]

Yes its a great episode.
I also like it where Spock mentions Space Legends this far out. Makes space seem big and scary.
Its interesting Spock's conflict with Kirk in pursuing the Gorns in contrast with his opinions in the "Balance of Terror". While I think Kirk was right in his actions for the wrong reasons - the Federation needed to know about the Gorns before more lives were lost. Of course all the Federations lives on the Enterprise would have been lost if Kirk had lost the fight.
My two main issues are the Gorn costume - this is what people point out to me as the reason they scoff at Star Trek and how the Gorn tricked the Enterprise into bringing down their tactical people to the planet. I would think that such a message would have to be coded.

I agree that barbarian non-Trek fans mock the awesome Gorn costume in their ignorance, but I think it's great. It's so muscular and dense. Really sells the image of the Gorn as a tank. And I like the costume far more than the stupid CGI Gorn from ENT that didn't even act like a Gorn.

 

[Pauln6]

I don't hate the Alternative Factor as much as some but its plot could have done with some fine tuning.

A localised anti matter explosion of an entire planet would still be pretty devastating to nearby star systems without the questionable winking out of all reality. The tunnel obviously converted matter to anti-matter and vice versa or Lazerus (and Kirk) would have exploded so presumably Lazerus was trying to override that process.

Maybe Kirk keeps firing (or spacing) his security chief after every new crisis caused by his/her incompetence? That's why we never see them.

Charlene Masters is pretty cool though. She seems intelligent, funny, most probably working in the high energy physics team, and is pretty much the only female engineer we've seen to date. I'm sure there are loads more though. One third of the crew is female, remember?

 

[Shawnster]

I. don't know. what. to say.

I've watched this episode multiple times in 40+ years and I'm just as confused as ever. It's like they produced the first draft of a very rough script.

And why waste money on location shooting for this? Did they simply get bonus time at Vasquez since they just shot Arena there? 2 for 1 deal? "We wrapped up early on Arena and we've still got time left. Let's shoot the next episode here!" Seriously, aren't there other first season episodes where the budget money would have been better used?

Charlene Masters is my favorite part of the episode and, really, the only or few redeeming points. Yet, why is she in blue and in Engineering? Why is she in charge of Engineering? At least, it seems she's in charge. Where is Scotty? Where is this engineering room at? It's not the engineering set we've seen so far.

Speaking of sets, what is that odd alcove along the corridor that Lazarus walks by when he has one of his early attacks? http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/thumbnails.php?album=28&page=9 It's neat. I like it. Wish we'd see more of it in other episodes, but what is it? Public access? Comm station? Some minor auxiliary control?

Yes, this episode continues the tradition of giving strangers, visitors, and really anyone not part of the crew free access to roam unescorted to any part of the ship. The tradition continues through all Star Trek. Geez, people! At the very least give these people a guide! A security officer posing (or not posing) as guide, counselor, therapist, nurse, aid, concierge, something! So many problems (plot contrivances) could be avoided if these people were escorted.

So, Lazarus claims to be a time traveler. He's from another dimension. Is he a Time Lord? Is his little UFO looking space ship a TARDIS? Maybe Kirk and Lazarus don't go to another dimension, they just get lost inside the TARDIS. It's bigger on the inside, after all. And, echoing the question above, how does this ship work? It appeared by itself. The ship didn't need some mechanism to appear in our universe (so it appears). Lazarus switches places or enters the alternate universe without the aid of the ship several times. What does he need the ship for?

Spock’s initial report says that Lazarus’ planet has an oxygen-hydrogen atmosphere. That sounds explosive!

Or it sounds rather wet. Depends on the ratio.

So, are these dilithium crystals the actual power source? Are they radioactive? Must not be if they are handled easily. And they aren't really crystal shaped. They are flat pentagon shaped things with insert tabs. http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x27hd/thealternativefactorhd330.jpg Quite different than the way the (di)lithium crystals appeared in Mudd's Women. http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x06hd/muddswomenhd430.jpg Remember in that episode they burned the crystals out? They had to reduce power. Without the crystals the orbit would decay. It's like they are a power source of some kind (as opposed to merely focusing the matter/antimatter stream).

Seriously, these differences - Masters as in charge of engineering, no Scotty, no Sulu but Leslie at the helm, the different engineering room, the different crystals - makes it look like this is some alternate reality Star Trek. Maybe we're really watching the anti-matter universe in this episode!

Starfleet can monitor ever quadrant of the galaxy and beyond? This effect was felt everywhere? I'd love to see what the other species like the Romulans or the Gorn or even these non-corporeal super beings thought about all this. How did they react?

Just an odd, odd, episode.

No update to the romance boards.

No change to the love meters this week. We still have (now in production order!)
Kirk Love Meter
Little Blonde Lab Technician
Jancie Rand
Evie
Andrea (forgot her last time)
Helen Noel
Miri (In the line of duty)
Lenore Karidian (In the line of duty)
Lieutenant Helen Johansson
Areel Shaw
Ruth

McCoy Love Meter
Nancy Crater
Yeoman Tonia Barrows

 

[Mytran]

Charlene Masters is my favorite part of the episode and, really, the only or few redeeming points. Yet, why is she in blue and in Engineering? Why is she in charge of Engineering? At least, it seems she's in charge. Where is Scotty? Where is this engineering room at? It's not the engineering set we've seen so far.

I can't believe I forgot to mention the new Engineering set!
I've studied it at length so many times over the years, it's a truly fascinating addition to the one-off rooms we see on the show.

Speaking of sets, what is that odd alcove along the corridor that Lazarus walks by when he has one of his early attacks? http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/thumbnails.php?album=28&page=9 It's neat. I like it. Wish we'd see more of it in other episodes, but what is it? Public access? Comm station? Some minor auxiliary control?

It's actually shown up at least twice before. In Mudd's Women the camera was stationed behind the grill as the lovely ladies made their way to Kirk's cabin

In Conscience of the King, McCoy and Spock pause by it during their covert conversation on Kodos. It is labelled as "Engineering Circuit Bay"

Lazarus switches places or enters the alternate universe without the aid of the ship several times. What does he need the ship for?

It seems that once the link had been made between the Lazaruses, they were doomed to randomly switch whenever one of them entered the corridor. The ship remained the only way to accurately control the transfer.
There seemed to be a similar link between the two ships in the opposing universes, since once one was destroyed, the other was as well.

So, are these dilithium crystals the actual power source? Are they radioactive? Must not be if they are handled easily. And they aren't really crystal shaped. They are flat pentagon shaped things with insert tabs. http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x27hd/thealternativefactorhd330.jpg Quite different than the way the (di)lithium crystals appeared in Mudd's Women. http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x06hd/muddswomenhd430.jpg Remember in that episode they burned the crystals out? They had to reduce power. Without the crystals the orbit would decay. It's like they are a power source of some kind (as opposed to merely focusing the matter/antimatter stream).

Nothing in TOS suggests that crystals help to focus the matter-antimatter reaction - instead this mixing is done in the "main engines" (AKA the nacelles). What Mudd's Women did tell us though is that the Enterprise draws power through the crystals, which suggests that they perform a function similar to an alternator in aeroplanes; IOW to convert the raw power of the engines (in Enterprise's case, a M/AM reaction) into sometime more usable by ship systems such as deflectors, phasers, life support and maybe even sublight propulsion.
If you don't buy that, then consider that lithium crystals and dilithium crystals are two different things

Seriously, these differences - Masters as in charge of engineering, no Scotty, no Sulu but Leslie at the helm, the different engineering room, the different crystals - makes it look like this is some alternate reality Star Trek. Maybe we're really watching the anti-matter universe in this episode!

It's the Gold Key comic episode!

 

[Poltargyst]

The tunnel obviously converted matter to anti-matter and vice versa or Lazerus (and Kirk) would have exploded

I don't think that's the case because at one point in their big deliberation scene, Kirk and Spock talk about how it has to be the two equal and opposite particles annihilating. So Lazarus and Lazarus would annihilate but Lazarus wouldn't annihilate with anything else.

 

[Mytran]

The thing is, Lazarus is not a particle - none of us are. We are made up of untold millions of particles and molecules, any one of which encountering anything made of antimatter would immediately react with it.

If Kirk were really walking around an antimatter universe, every step would be devestating as his boots reacted with the ground and his body with the air.

That's why we have to take what Kirk and Spock as analogy rather than literally

 

[Commishsleer]

I don't hate the Alternative Factor as much as some but its plot could have done with some fine tuning.

A localised anti matter explosion of an entire planet would still be pretty devastating to nearby star systems without the questionable winking out of all reality. The tunnel obviously converted matter to anti-matter and vice versa or Lazerus (and Kirk) would have exploded so presumably Lazerus was trying to override that process.

Maybe Kirk keeps firing (or spacing) his security chief after every new crisis caused by his/her incompetence? That's why we never see them.

Charlene Masters is pretty cool though. She seems intelligent, funny, most probably working in the high energy physics team, and is pretty much the only female engineer we've seen to date. I'm sure there are loads more though. One third of the crew is female, remember?

I actually quite like the "Alternative Factor". I think it has a grand premise - could be used for a movie..
I like the idea of the anti-matter universe, Yeh I don't care about the other Mirror Universes - this episode was first.
I think the concept of the anti-matter universe is more realistic that Mirror universes which have the same crew compliment
I like Lazarus cute ship, great special effects, the contrast between the mad and sane Lazari and a woman in engineering. A woman actually in charge of men. Wow. Hope we are going to see a lot of that in future episodes.
Of course it has its problems which no doubt many people here will testify to. The number of times either Lazarus was able to waltz around the ship and steal crystals was way too much.
The overacting in the opening scene - probably the worst acting in TOS until "And the Children Shall Lead".
The two Lazarus being caught in the corridor used to worry me. - I thought one of them would die of starvation or something but now I guess they had no physical form so perhaps could 'live' forever.
This is the second time Kirk has just not believed McCoy when he tells him about the wound, Same as in Man Trap about Nancy's aging. And Spock didn't believe McCoy in "The Enemy Within". Looks like you ignore McCoy to your own peril.

I agree that barbarian non-Trek fans mock the awesome Gorn costume in their ignorance, but I think it's great. It's so muscular and dense. Really sells the image of the Gorn as a tank. And I like the costume far more than the stupid CGI Gorn from ENT that didn't even act like a Gorn.

Couldn't agree with you more. Barbarians is too fine a name for them. And the Gorn from ENT was just pathetic.
I think the Gorn was a great character but I can see past the effects and see how great TOS is. I wouldn't want anything changed its such a TOS classic episode. I don't know how they would do the episode today. I think even 50 years later they wouldn't be able to do it much better.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I've watched this episode multiple times in 40+ years and I'm just as confused as ever.

Same here. The Alternative Factor's Lazarus switching might have made sense on paper, but on screen it's a mess. I never know what the deal is, and I've seen it probably tens of times.

William Shatner made the same gimmick work in The Enemy Within because his evil side was very obvious about it, and because Shatner is awesome. But for a guest star brought in at the last minute, to play two such similar versions of the same guy? Forget it. It was doomed from the start.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Charlene Masters is my favorite part of the episode and, really, the only or few redeeming points. Yet, why is she in blue and in Engineering?

Maybe she's usually a theoretical engineer, and is doing a practical engineering rotation.

 

[Desert Kris]

I regret not having check back in on this ST run through, as I was getting quite far along in my own marathon. A week or two ago I finished watching the last movie featuring the original cast, before rounding it off with a run through of the JJ Abrams movies.

In the spirit of The Alternative Factor, I'm thinking about how I wish I had integrated the Abrams movie into my rewatch, as alternative starting points side-by-side with the original show. Next time, I will: The Cage, Star Trek (2009), WNMHGB, Into Darkness, and then watch the rest of the TOS and TAS series; with ST Beyond as the symbolic end of the 5YM and the newly built Enterprise as (in spirit) the transition to the movie era and its "almost totally new Enterprise."

The only thing I like about The Alternative Factor are the speculations that have emerged that I've seen here just recently and on another thread as well; that suggests that the main story is taking place in an alternate universe, like the Abrams stories or the more extreme example of the Mirror, Mirror episode.

Actually a correction; I like that there's some exterior location shooting, although it might have been used for a better story, as others have already mentioned. I also like the one-off effects shot of the Enterprise in orbit firing on the planet below; of all the other stock ship shots the show endlessly used, it's disappointing that this one is never seen again outside of The Alternative Factor.

Yeah, I just couldn't like it at all. Even the rough patches of season 3 are nothing compared to the restlessness and contempt I felt watching this one for the second time ever in my life (that I can remember). The next time I watch it, if I ever do, it will be from an analytical perspective of viewing it as an alternative version of the Enterprise and Star Trek.

 

[Pauln6]

Maybe she's usually a theoretical engineer, and is doing a practical engineering rotation.

High energy physics is all about making sure the phasers and engines and tractor beams and shields work properly, most likely comparing actual performance to theoretical results. I expect they interpret all those simulations that Scotty runs so there is likely some logic to her wearing blue.

Maybe we should keep an eye uniform colours from now on.

 

[Mytran]

This is the second time Kirk has just not believed McCoy when he tells him about the wound, Same as in Man Trap about Nancy's aging. And Spock didn't believe McCoy in "The Enemy Within". Looks like you ignore McCoy to your own peril.

It's McCoy's fault for playing too many practical jokes in the early episodes - even by episode 3 (Enemy Within) Spock and Kirk were wise to his shenanigans.

SPOCK: Well, our good doctor said that you were acting like a wild man, demanded brandy.
KIRK: Our good doctor's been putting you on again.
SPOCK: Hmm. Well, in that case, if you'll excuse the intrusion Captain, I'll get back to my work.
KIRK: I'll tell him you were properly annoyed.

Oh, the doctor who cried wolf...

High energy physics is all about making sure the phasers and engines and tractor beams and shields work properly, most likely comparing actual performance to theoretical results. I expect they interpret all those simulations that Scotty runs so there is likely some logic to her wearing blue.

That's a good point and matches pretty well one of the commands that Kirk gives to Lt Masters in the episode:

ENGINEER: Lieutenant Masters, Captain's calling.
MASTERS: Masters here.
KIRK [OC]: Lieutenant, can you prepare an experimentation chamber in ten minutes? All dilithium crystals, full power.
MASTERS: I'll check, sir...Captain. The chamber will be ready in ten minutes, sir.

It seems that even though the room is unhelpfully labelled as "Engineering" it's actually a multi-purpose high energy lab of some sort. It "reamplifies" the depleted dilithium crystals in two of those flip-down drawers, but there are four other drawers which suggests a multitude of of functions can be performed from this room.

 

[Poltargyst]

A woman actually in charge of men. Wow.

A BLACK woman in charge of WHITE men. In the 60's!

 

[Pauln6]

A BLACK woman in charge of WHITE men. In the 60's!

Yeah, I hadn't realised that this one came before City on the Edge of Forever. I've always credited Uhura with doing it first. Everyone bangs on about the interracial kiss all the time but this one feels far more important to me!

I wonder if giving Masters a different uniform colour was a sneaky way of tricking people into thinking she wasn't in charge of the engineers really as she's not part of their department?

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I wonder if giving Masters a different uniform colour was a sneaky way of tricking people into thinking she wasn't in charge of the engineers really as she's not part of their department?

Sometimes I wonder if her lack of stripes was a none-too-subtle way to make her less threatening to the Order of Things, or worse, a costumer's way of undermining her intended status.

Also possible: they picked blue to keep her from too closely resembling Uhura, and they put her into the blue one that fit, and nobody went the extra mile to make that dress match the script.

 

[Pauln6]

Sometimes I wonder if her lack of stripes was a none-too-subtle way to make her less threatening to the Order of Things, or worse, a costumer's way of undermining her intended status.

Also possible: they picked blue to keep her from too closely resembling Uhura, and they put her into the blue one that fit, and nobody went the extra mile to make that dress match the script.

Yeah Trek can be sloppy with rank braids. How often do guest lieutenants miss their braids?