Underused maybe, but forgettable? Nope.
Return of the Prequel Hatred Poll... (Better...!!)
- Thread starter VulcanMindBlown
- Start date
Underused maybe, but forgettable? Nope.
Neither do I. I find them much more enjoyable than the sequel trilogy so far, which I've found to be derivative (TFA) or just downright poor (TLJ). ROTS is my favourite of the three also.
One of my friends who is in VFX made that observation as well-that these films were largely experiments in digital film making. Which, to be fair to Lucas, he did a great job in expanding the technological scope, and even challenging some preconceptions of what Star Wars could be.
I wouldn't say forgettable, since I certainly think he is more recognizable than Dooku or Grievous and has more staying power than either of those.
Same here.
I can understand people expressing their dislike or love of the Sequel Trilogy right now. It's unfinished.
But it's been 19 years since "The Phantom Menace" was first released and 13 years since "Revenge of the Sith" was released. Why are so many still obsessed with putting down this trilogy? Or is this a backlash against the hostility directed at the Sequel Trilogy?
But it's been 19 years since "The Phantom Menace" was first released and 13 years since "Revenge of the Sith" was released. Why are so many still obsessed with putting down this trilogy? Or is this a backlash against the hostility directed at the Sequel Trilogy?
There is a difference between "putting down" and discussing personal expectations and reactions to the films. This is hardly a reaction to the ST since I've been discussing the PT online since 2002 and pretty much haven't stopped.
Otherwise, why do people still discuss Ewoks? It's been nearly 40 years!
And, as I said, I'll be happy to discuss the failings of other films in the franchise. I just don't think it all equals out and never will.
Always considered Darth Maul the fanboy equivalent of Jar Jar Binks. Worse, he set the tone for the next two films.
I'm not even sure how to read this, to be honest. Not sure how he "set the tone" when he was largely ignored after dying.
Say what you will about TPM, at least it didn't rely on action and lightsabers as much as AOTC and ROTS. You only had one minor duel and one major duel. I think Lucas was genuinely shocked and upset by the reaction to TPM, so you started seeing much more of the only thing people liked: over-the-top lightsaber combat.
Okay, people liked seeing a dude with a double-ended lightsaber, so how about Yoda with a lightsaber? How about dual-wielding lightsabers? How about Boba Fett vs. lightsabers? How about a cyborg using four lightsabers at once?
Darth Maul had zero character, but he succeeded because of a relatively mindless action sequence. Just like Jar Jar was a cheap way of appealing to younger audiences, Maul was a cheap way of appealing to the fanbase that now seems to be termed 'fanboy'. If you ever wonder how we got from one central lightsaber duel to robot lizard with four lightsabers fighting Obi-Wan before getting on a weird transport thing while Obi-Wan rode a giant iguana ... well, I think that started with Darth Maul.
Obviously I didn't like the way this played out, but I think even people who enjoy the prequels will agree that a large part of the action-heavy focus seen in AOTC and especialyl ROTS had their start with Maul.
I cannot agree that it started with Maul, at least not the parts with Grievous or Yoda. I think that it simply was opportunities to expand upon the visuals within the Saga.
And, I certainly don't see just "fanboys" enjoying Maul
I cannot agree that it started with Maul, at least not the parts with Grievous or Yoda. I think that it simply was opportunities to expand upon the visuals within the Saga.
And, I certainly don't see just "fanboys" enjoying Maul
But was expanding the visuals really a good thing? The ROTJ duel was shorter and less complex than the duel from ESB, so they clearly could have expanded things there. I don't think the visuals were expanded as much as they were exaggerated to cover up for the lack of story.
In previous duels, what the characters said to each other was of far greater importance than the fight itself. In most PT duels, they barely say anything to each other, and they literally say nothing in TPM. To me, that's the type of action that started with Maul and wound up dominating the latter prequels.
You're right about it not just being fanboys. I'm not really sure how to say what I mean there. *Ponders*
That is the question. Part of the struggle is certainly the emotional connection of the characters, which we certainly don't have with Maul and Qui-Gon, or with Dooku and Yoda. The emotional stakes are my place of struggle largely because the movie is relying upon visual storytelling. And, that's fair enough, because Lucas is a self-admitted person who struggles with dialog and prefers visuals and amping up the energy of the scene. I think that there are a lot of great visual moments in the Prequels overall, and I don't think Lucas was exaggerating for the sake of covering up lack of story but there because Lucas wanted them there.
Ultimately, for me, the characters didn't have emotional resonance for me to care in the duels. That mileage will definitely vary.
I guess I think it's both ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Emotional connection is part of it, but I also think very little (or usually nothing) is conveyed in those fights. Could have them end after two or three lightsaber contacts and have the same impact in the story.
The audience, right? (yes, I know this isn't unanimous).
Myself and the people in my general circle of friends. Yes, I know it isn't unanimous, and yes I know you like the PT. Not sure why this still needs clarifying
What did seem to start with Darth Maul is the 2 against 1 light saber fight, specifically 2 good guys against 1 bad guy. I thought it was a bit odd that Lucas would set up that scenario.
Usually in stories, it is the good guy(s) who is outnumbered or facing bad odds. The good guy is usually shown to be the underdog in a fight.
For me, the Maul vs Qui-gon/Obi-wan combo, while unconventional was not nearly as peculiar as the Obi-wan/Anakin 2 against 1 Dooku fight. It was 1 white hair elderly looking man going up against 2 young robust jedis. Not a pretty sight. Plus it was the iconic Christopher Lee who was outmanned. I was rooting for Dooku/Lee over Anakin, especially during the RoTS fight.
Btw, I loved the back leg kick by Dooku. That was awesome.
What’s funny, is that I’m inclined to agree about emotions being tempered by having no real attachment to the characters. Except...
Once the duel is over, I kinda do like the scene between Obi-Wan and Anakin. It’s pretty sad, and sorta horrifying. Even if Obi-Wan does have one too many lines in there.
“ It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them! Bring balance to the force... not leave it in darkness!” probably should have been left out altogether. It’s almost like an exposition dump, in the midst of the actual character stuff. For eg.
But if you really want that sort of overly-wordy 50’s era stuff that works better in books and plays George, then just pick one of those initial sentences. Having both is undercutting my feels!
Once the duel is over, I kinda do like the scene between Obi-Wan and Anakin. It’s pretty sad, and sorta horrifying. Even if Obi-Wan does have one too many lines in there.
“ It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them! Bring balance to the force... not leave it in darkness!” probably should have been left out altogether. It’s almost like an exposition dump, in the midst of the actual character stuff. For eg.
Obi-Wan: You were the chosen one!
Anakin Skywalker: [shouts] I HATE YOU!
Obi-Wan: You were my brother, Anakin! I loved you!
Works so well, that even the trailers guys knew it.Anakin Skywalker: [shouts] I HATE YOU!
Obi-Wan: You were my brother, Anakin! I loved you!
But if you really want that sort of overly-wordy 50’s era stuff that works better in books and plays George, then just pick one of those initial sentences. Having both is undercutting my feels!
I just find that whole exchange while they're fighting so bizarre. The oddest bit is when Anakin says that from his perspective the Jedi are evil, and it's like ... did you already forget why you turned to the dark side?
Yeah. The characters really just restate what the audience already knows. Just kinda smack talking.
Bro, why?!
Yeah. The characters really just restate what the audience already knows. Just kinda smack talking.
Bro, why?!
I highly recommend reading the ROTS novel for that first duel alone. It's amazing.
It's a great scene. One of the few character moments that are fully earned and genuine, to me.
