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Star Trek 4 Hits A Snag

Think Paramount, Pegg, Lin etc just got the wrong idea and figured as there was the online fan moaning about STiD and as it was the 50th Ann then everyone(i.e. the hard core fans) would want like a big budget episode of TOS (like if TOS had had its All Good Things 2 hour finale in 1969/70 except big budget/CG and of course new actors - like the way ST09 was sort of the never seen TOS origin pilot but with a bunch of added crazy big cinematic stuff - Nimoy/timetravel/changing timeline/Vulcan/JJ etc) thats ok ...but as a result it sort of felt abit 'Insurrectiony' with the only 'big' hook being the Enterprise being destroyed (again. And it was almost in the last movie). imho the more casual Trek fans, and general movie audiences whose main trek knowledge came from catching the 2 mainstream JJ movies (and maybe a few of the previous movies prior or since and the odd TNG eps back in the 90s or on netflix) were expecting something more mainstream/bombastic inline with the prev 2 films like a Dark Knight Rises/ReturnofJedi/XMen3 finale continuing story/plot lines and maybe concluding some stuff (whilst allowing for potential further movies). with added 'big' cinematic hooks - timeline stuff, Klingons (after being teased in STiD), romulans, maybe even abit of Borg somehow, and of course when Shatner was dangled in front of the movie back in 2014 it generated a fair bit of general media interest: https://trekmovie.com/2014/09/29/sh...rt-must-be-worthy-bill-bob-now-tweet-buddies/

Beyond was extremely cinematic. It even had that most eighties of things with the Rihanna song. It felt to me like the series course correcting really really well, and was absolutely the right direction for some of cinema in general to head in. Less episodic, ironically. It was fully formed for a start, way less dependent on being viewed as part of a series. The poster was the best in years even.
But then that was the year GiTS got roundly not grasped, so it was bad year for striking out in new directions. I think everyone just got jaded that year.
 
And revisiting the MACO/Archer era with an NX warp 4 ship? Named dropping the Xindi?? Literal icing on the cake.
it's kind of funny how much love there is for enterprise in the kelvin timeline films (admiral archer's beagle in 09, the NX-alpha and NX-01 models in into darkness, shuttle pods, xindi, MACOs, etc in beyond).

they were giving props to enterprise before it was cool.
 
it's kind of funny how much love there is for enterprise in the kelvin timeline films (admiral archer's beagle in 09, the NX-alpha and NX-01 models in into darkness, shuttle pods, xindi, MACOs, etc in beyond).

they were giving props to enterprise before it was cool.

That was Nemesis.
Costumes too.
 
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That was Nemesis.
Costumes too.
i don't know if you're being funny or if it's lost in translation, so i'm leaving this here:
5eM0Ln6.png
 
I get the points about artificiality. The whole "Kirk-Pine is bored" was very artificial to me. You're right: he tells us they've had a lot of missions. But we haven't seen 79 of them with this crew. Or three years' worth or whatever. "I just saw an "exciting" movie with Khan. (Well, years ago, but that was the last one.) And now you're bored. Poor baby."

And . . . the movie just wasn't that compelling or special. Okay. I liked the new character. But merely ok. I'll not miss these movies. YMMV and likely does. Be well.

We didn't really see all these missions, thus what made the characters tired and homesick. We only just saw them going into their first five years mission at the end of the previous movie and then nothing. It's hard to truly get the characters and their motives because the narrative doesn't really give them enough space and screentime to express that, and it's a pity because it does have potential.

Even them losing their ship didn't make me as emotional as they maybe expected.

The problem I have is that every time I see one of these movies, I always have the same reaction--"this all seems so artificial". It's just a reaction I get, and I really anticipated seeing trek09.

Like I said, it may not be that big a deal or a franchise killer, but I did wonder if it would affect the movie down the line. If the audience gets the feeling that they never really got to know Kirk, The Enterprise, their adventures and their relationships, it will show eventually--at the box office.

It was all mashed together and everything happened too fast. With too much emphasis on the "spine tingling action".

If they had to go that route, I think Starship Troopers did it right.

In fact, it's almost the same story. Young guy, a little troubled, joins the service, encouraged by a mentor type. He makes friends. He gets into a fight with a senior officer. During training he messes up and gets disciplined after a hearing.

There's an attack on his planet . The enlistees are put on active duty. He finds a way back into the service. The mentor type is killed and he is put in command of his squad and his friends are also promoted. At the end of the movie they're being shown as leaders in their new roles.

Sounds familiar?
 
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The problem I have is that every time I see one of these movies, I always have the same reaction--"this all seems so artificial". It's just a reaction I get, and I really anticipated seeing trek09.

Like I said, it may not be that big a deal or a franchise killer, but I did wonder if it would affect the movie down the line. If the audience gets the feeling that they never really got to know Kirk, The Enterprise, their adventures and their relationships, it will show eventually--at the box office.

It was all mashed together and everything happened too fast. With too much emphasis on the "spine tingling action".

If they had to go that route, I think Starship Troopers did it right.

In fact, it's almost the same story. Young guy, a little troubled, joins the service, encouraged by a mentor type. He makes friends. He gets into a fight with a senior officer. During training he messes up and gets disciplined after a hearing.

There's an attack on his planet . The enlistees are put on active duty. He finds a way back into the service. The mentor type is killed and he is put in command of his squad and his friends are also promoted. At the end of the movie they're being shown as leaders in their new roles.

Sounds familiar?

Don’t forget the love triangle (dialled down a notch) and the relationship with an instructor.
 
The problem I have is that every time I see one of these movies, I always have the same reaction--"this all seems so artificial". It's just a reaction I get, and I really anticipated seeing trek09.

Like I said, it may not be that big a deal or a franchise killer, but I did wonder if it would affect the movie down the line. If the audience gets the feeling that they never really got to know Kirk, The Enterprise, their adventures and their relationships, it will show eventually--at the box office.

It was all mashed together and everything happened too fast. With too much emphasis on the "spine tingling action".

If they had to go that route, I think Starship Troopers did it right.

In fact, it's almost the same story. Young guy, a little troubled, joins the service, encouraged by a mentor type. He makes friends. He gets into a fight with a senior officer. During training he messes up and gets disciplined after a hearing.

There's an attack on his planet . The enlistees are put on active duty. He finds a way back into the service. The mentor type is killed and he is put in command of his squad and his friends are also promoted. At the end of the movie they're being shown as leaders in their new roles.

Sounds familiar?
remember seeing SST back in xmas 97 and aside thinking it was awesome with the best Space FX id ever seen, that Johnny Rico was alot like how i imagined young Kirk to have been in his Academy days and if they ever did a star trek remake then the Rico guy wouldve been great as a young Kirk (Pine dosnt look that different to Casper Van Dien anyway)

and yeh there were alot of similarities to SST that you already mentioned there - plus the Warp effect was pretty similar too (seeing the back of the characters heads experience the warp bending effect - that was sot of inspired by Star Wars) and the warp speed breach crew being sucked out in STiD was similar to the scene in SST
 
The problem I have is that every time I see one of these movies, I always have the same reaction--"this all seems so artificial". It's just a reaction I get, and I really anticipated seeing trek09.

Like I said, it may not be that big a deal or a franchise killer, but I did wonder if it would affect the movie down the line. If the audience gets the feeling that they never really got to know Kirk, The Enterprise, their adventures and their relationships, it will show eventually--at the box office.

It was all mashed together and everything happened too fast. With too much emphasis on the "spine tingling action".

If they had to go that route, I think Starship Troopers did it right.

In fact, it's almost the same story. Young guy, a little troubled, joins the service, encouraged by a mentor type. He makes friends. He gets into a fight with a senior officer. During training he messes up and gets disciplined after a hearing.

There's an attack on his planet . The enlistees are put on active duty. He finds a way back into the service. The mentor type is killed and he is put in command of his squad and his friends are also promoted. At the end of the movie they're being shown as leaders in their new roles.

Sounds familiar?
Yes. ST 09 was far and away better.
 
Star Trek Into Darkness literally has the opposite message of SST, though. What with not supporting a fascist state.
SST, the movie, was also very much a farce on fascist states and war based upon Verhoven's own experience with political films.
 
SST is basically the anti-ARENA. Where Kirk decides not to kill the Gorn, Rico just continues killing and becomes another sprocket in the machine of fascism. I love the flick as a piece of satire. It's a much darker take on the idea of humanity having come together in harmony, but at the expense of other lifeforms in the galaxy.
 
Yes. ST 09 was far and away better.

Star Trek Into Darkness literally has the opposite message of SST, though. What with not supporting a fascist state.

SST is basically the anti-ARENA. Where Kirk decides not to kill the Gorn, Rico just continues killing and becomes another sprocket in the machine of fascism. I love the flick as a piece of satire. It's a much darker take on the idea of humanity having come together in harmony, but at the expense of other lifeforms in the galaxy.

True, Starship Troopers was obviously a farce, but it was just fun to watch. It didn't take itself too seriously and yet it did.

The movie was a one shot deal, but the way they put the characters together and promoted them seemed to work more for me.

I can really get over how they made Kirk captain and the rest of the cadets senior officers and staffed the Enterprise with them but I had a feeling it might have an effect on the series later on.


They did the same things with Superman and Batman in the Dc movies. We didn't get to know these two newer versions. Then Batman vs Superman was considered disappointing and that probably affected "Justice League"--everything was mashed in too quickly.

Don’t forget the love triangle (dialled down a notch) and the relationship with an instructor.

Uhura-Spock-Kirk = Rico-Carmen-Lt Zander I wonder if this was the inspiration for Trek09.
 
Doubtful, largely because Kirk never had a chance with Uhura.

They just got the military bar fight scene done much earlier. XD
So..carol Marcus is dizzy?
It’s been years since I saw the film, but I caught about three minutes of troopers on tv the other night.
 
They just got the military bar fight scene done much earlier. XD
So..carol Marcus is dizzy?
It’s been years since I saw the film, but I caught about three minutes of troopers on tv the other night.
Military bar fights are a dime a dozen in cinema. ;)
 
I always kind of wondered if ST 09 was inspired in part by “Star Trek Best Destiny” a book by Diane Duane that shows Kirk as a young troublemaker in Iowa with a Starfleet father that straightens him out on a mission that goes awry.
 
I always kind of wondered if ST 09 was inspired in part by “Star Trek Best Destiny” a book by Diane Duane that shows Kirk as a young troublemaker in Iowa with a Starfleet father that straightens him out on a mission that goes awry.
The writers cited that book as an inspiration, yes.
 
The Starship Troopers analogy is a good one though in that it shows how an organic progression from cadet to leader can happen in the space of one film. Rico taking over that company in the Mobile Infantry was believable... whereas everything about Kirk's ascent in Star Trek 09 felt horribly forced and implausible. I thought it even diminished Prime Spock. He could have been a mentor from the shadows helping Kirk with leadership, instead he basically said, "Use whatever method needed to sabotage my younger self."
 
I actually wish there was no Prime Spock in that nuTrek. This should have just been a straight up reboot with no connection to the old continuity. Bringing back Nimoy felt then and still feels to me just cheap fan service. STID's was even worse. Funny that Nimoy originally turned down the equally contrived role in GENERATIONS, I guess senility caught up to him a decade later.
 
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