Wesley's service?

[J.T.B.]

it's understandable from a real world perspective because of how we need Wesley to be different from the rest of the crew and go through the normal teen adventures but in-universe, he's a battle-hard experienced pro isn't it?

The US service academies have long offered slots to select enlisted personnel, who of course go in with more military experience than the average just-out-of-high school cadet or midshipman. They still need the academics, but of course their experience would be deferred to in a lot of areas, and especially if they are combat veterans. Check out the hardware on the cadet on the left.




I imagine Wesley's situation would not be too different.

 

[Timo]

Wesley probably also attended in a somewhat special quota, that for underage supergeniuses. The qualities screened for in "Coming of Age" may have placed him on a specialist path he thought best suited for himself. Locarno could have been somebody he would look up to in terms of other qualities, and Locarno's path something Wesley regretted not choosing or not having trained for.

Wesley may be a combat veteran, but it is possible those brownie points aren't applicable to his supergenius studies - and OTOH the more down-to-Earth path of Locarno has Wesley at other types of disadvantage.

Wes wasn't doing all that well in the hot shot pilot club. But for all we know, he was Head Honcho Numero Uno in the tech wizard club, both for his top-of-the-class special skills and the added even if inapplicable veteran rep. This aspect of his studies simply wasn't relevant to "First Duty".

Timo Saloniemi

 

[MAGolding]

Yup, that'd be Lieutenant (2nd Class) by US terms. Only the US Navy does it differently, calling the Lieutenant (2nd Class) by the unusual term Ensign, which gives us the confusion at hand.

Timo Saloniemi

I have never heard of a lieutenant (2nd class) in the US navy.

Comparing ranks between different countries is confusing.

As far as I can tell, naval cadets in the US Naval academy are called midshipmen, which may or may not agree with the words for naval cadets in other countries and languages.

The lowest commissioned officer rank in the US navy is ensign, which is the equivalent of 2nd lieutenant in the army; both are pay grade O-1.

Next is lieutenant junior grade, equivalent to a first lieutenant in the army. O-2.

Next higher is lieutenant, equivalent to a captain in the army. O-3.

Next higher is lieutenant commander, equivalent to a major in the army. O-4.

Next higher is commander, equivalent to a lieutenant colonel in the army. O-5.

Next higher is captain, equivalent to a colonel in the army. O-6.

Next higher is commodore, or in the present era rear admiral lower half, equivalent to a brigadier general in the army. O-7.

Next higher is rear admiral, equivalent to a major general in the army. O-8.

Next higher is vice admiral, equivalent to a lieutenant general in the army. O-9.

Next higher is admiral, equivalent to a general in the army. O-10.

Fleet Admiral and Admiral of the Navy are higher ranks that would never be used except in a big war.

Ensign and lieutenant junior grade are both listed as OFF-1 in the NATO system, so admiral is O-10 in the US system and OFF-9 in the NATO system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_officer_rank_insignia

As near as I can tell, Finland has eleven ranks from their equivalent of ensign to admiral, with an extra rank of kapteeniluutnantii or captain lieutenant between senior lieutenant and lieutenant commander.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_military_ranks#Navy_operational_ranks

 

[cgervasi]

So Wesley gets to the academy (where's he's demoted from being a commissioned ensign/Lieutenant*) and meets his new bunkmates. Does Wesley get to correct his instructors "Actually I was AT the battle of Worf 359!" on a regular basis.

Why would he really give a crap about red squadron who must see like kids to him (even though they are older) given he was endlessly put in live and death high stakes situations?

It's understandable from a real world perspective because of how we need Wesley to be different from the rest of the crew and go through the normal teen adventures but in-universe, he's a battle-hard experienced pro isn't it?

IMHO, Wesley should have been swimming in confidence when he got to Starfleet Academy. Being a bridge officer on the Federation flagship, assisting in the defeat of the Borg, all the missions he served and the various worlds he visited, working under one of the most esteemed captains in Starfleet, plus being a genius to boot. Really the other cadets should have been worshiping him and the various Academy instructors probably being a bit jealous.

Starfleet makes a big distinction between enlisted people and officers. Young crewman Miles O'Brian and his peers would respect and envy someone who got right in the action at a young age. But officers respect people who do well at the academy or perhaps a very selective college plus officer candidate school (OCS). There are lots of people who can brag they were getting their hands dirty learning how to do repair an ODN junction quickly without shutting it down while the officers were studying translations of Surak's writings and what Klingon opera shows about Klingon history.

The Star Trek universe seems to have eliminated scarcity because you can replicate whatever you want, so you're not much richer if you run something famous or have a mundane job. But people who are driven want to make a difference beyond what they work on directly. In Starfleet, that means going to the academy.

That's why I think Wesley Crusher cared about the academy despite his on-the-job experience. It could also be related to why he became disillusioned with it.

 

[Timo]

I have never heard of a lieutenant (2nd class) in the US navy.

Me neither.

Comparing ranks between different countries is confusing.

Curiously, it generally is not - the rank system across the globe is almost universal, with just the names differing. Blame it on WWII or mass media or aspirations to join NATO or something.

That is, six officer ranks below the Admirals or Generals is more or less the standard. And the names of the ranks also tend to derive from the long traditions of the (French) military, with the lieu-tenant sometimes being in lieu of the following attribute, sometimes being given a promotion of sorts via that attribute (lieutenant commander is a lieutenant that is mighty enough to be a commander, not a commander's lieutenant, whereas a lieutenant general is indeed a general's lieutenant rather than a lieutenant so mighty he is a general).

It's at the very top and the very bottom that the systems differ. And the very bottom is our issue of interest here, and confusing for rather natural reasons: militaries would be teeming with young officers, and interested in creating distinctions. So the young leader may be functionally a Lieutenant of the lowest sort, but also called Ensign or Cornet for his functional role of carrying these devices in the battlefield, or Subaltern or something equally esoteric just because nobody likes 'em juniors much.

As far as I can tell, naval cadets in the US Naval academy are called midshipmen, which may or may not agree with the words for naval cadets in other countries and languages.

And nobody likes 'em cadets much, either, so there's lots of wrangling here as well. Starfleet is certainly guilty of it as well, using both Midshipman and Cadet alongside generic Trainee but not being clear on whether there's a distinction there or not.

As near as I can tell, Finland has eleven ranks from their equivalent of ensign to admiral, with an extra rank of kapteeniluutnantti or captain lieutenant between senior lieutenant and lieutenant commander.

It's the standard global scheme, with the standard number of ranks below Commodore - we (or the Russians before us) just don't want to have a naval rank reading "Captain" for the potential for confusion, so we use "Commodore" for that, without yet making it a flag rank, which is where all the confusion ensues.

The system would have been the standard global one overall if not for the need to be NATO-compatible, which is when the "lippueamiraali" flag rank was introduced, for the heretofore missing one-star flag slot. The army got its first brigadiers at the same time, similarly skewing the upper end of the previously standard scheme. But the number of Admiral or General ranks always varies, being an open-ended scheme with plenty of room at the top for the Great Leader's personal favorites.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Remember Wesley has an image to live up to of the 'kid prodigy', at this point it's the basis of his identity. So he needs to continue being the best at everything and pleasing the adults. It's what he rebels against in Journey's End.

 

[Nakita Akita]

Remember Wesley has an image to live up to of the 'kid prodigy', at this point it's the basis of his identity. So he needs to continue being the best at everything and pleasing the adults. It's what he rebels against in Journey's End.

He was a total putz in Journey's End and it's a good thing that he left with his freaky friend otherwise someone would have tossed him out an airlock!

 

[The Wormhole]

I don't know why the writers didn't just re-use Nova Squadron in DS9.

Because Red Squad was specifically stated to be a new thing.

 

[Infern0]

The Academy is actually often represented as quite a toxic environment

 

[Timo]

Which shouldn't be surprising, as only the dregs of the society would supposedly be enrolling. That is, anybody with any sense would just live in paradise, there being nothing Starfleet could offer except disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence, and thrills for the criminally insane.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Lance]

Consider that it was serendipitous that Wesley was aboard to stop the invasion in "The Game". The whole rest of the crew would've been toast. Greatest crew in the fleet!?

This may be heretical, but I actually believe "Journey's End" gives us the key to Wesley's character. This kid was pretty screwed up. He'd spent his entire life being told to live up to other people's expectations of him, and because of his upbringing he largely did so, but to a severe emotional and mental cost. The Wesley who angrily lashes out at Picard in "Journey's End" is the Wesley who was bursting to let loose in "The First Duty" when Picard started speechifying at him about what his 'responsibilities' are, but he didn't, because that's what he'd been conditioned for, by his mother, by the senior officers aboard the Enterprise, but this was a lad who lost his dad when he was barely old enough to remember him and who was being pushed in directions by everyone else without anyone actually stopping to ask him what *he* wanted out of life. He probably agreed to going to the academy because it was what was expected of him rather than because it was the path he wanted to follow, and underneath all of this it was just eating him up inside. He's probably one of Star Trek's most tragic characters ever.

 

[SpyOne]

Regarding "Lieutenant 2nd class":
Remember it was pointed out that German naval ranks are just army ranks with "at sea" added.
As pointed out above, a Navy Ensign is equivalent to an Army Second Lieutenant, so in German that would be a Second Lieutenant At Sea apparently.

 

[XCV330]

Honestly, it doesn't make a great deal of sense to me that Wesley would need to attend the Academy at all,

There was this one officer a long time earlier who had skipped the Academy and it seemed she missed a few points along the way like "don't commit mutiny" and so forth. Maybe they had regulations about that sort of thing later.

Unless you're an engineer, then you still don't have to go to the Academy.

 

[J.T.B.]

Regarding "Lieutenant 2nd class":
Remember it was pointed out that German naval ranks are just army ranks with "at sea" added.
As pointed out above, a Navy Ensign is equivalent to an Army Second Lieutenant, so in German that would be a Second Lieutenant At Sea apparently.

For the lowest two officer ranks (Leutnant, Oberleutnant) and officer cadets that is the case, all the other titles are different. The German Navy captain is Kapitän zur See, but the German Army and Air Force don't have a rank called Kapitän.

Japanese ranks were the same up through WW2, though, with an army or navy prefix.