What if the Hirogen came in force to the Alpha/Beta Quadrant

[Ghost]

Hello all,

I have not made it a secret in some previous posts that I am a fan of the Hirogen, the alien hunters that appeared in Voyager Season 4 and had another appearance in Season 7. While not all episodes with them were that interesting or good (I think they were at their best in "Hunters" and "Prey") and they are sort of derivative of the Predator species (from the Predator movies) I found them cool them cool antagonists because their appearance, their ships, and their motivations (they weren't after Voyager for its tech, they just wanted to hunts its crew)

We know from Voyager Season 4 that the Hirogen have been around for a long time, several thousands of years if they did indeed create the relay station network the crew of Voyager used to send the Doctor to the USS Prometheus in the Alpha Quadrant (shouldn't that be Beta Quadrant) and their species is spread across the Delta Quadrant.
Yet for some reason they have not made their way to any other Quadrants (well the Gamma Quadrant in the books and they reached the Beta Quadrant at the time of the main campaign of Star Trek Online)

But what if the Hirogen decided to go to the Alpha/Beta Quadrant to establish new hunting grounds there?
The Hirogen have some advanced technologies such as the unique armor of their ships that standard phasers of a Starfleet vessel can not penetrate. The crew of Voyager sought to purchase a cannon from an alien arms dealer that could damage it.

Now I am pretty sure that Starfleet and the Klingon and Romulan navies could handle a couple of isolated hunting parties, be it with some difficulty, but for the scenario I have in mind the Hirogen come in force; they managed to get a large number of their people together and not just have the smaller but already pretty strong hunter vessels but also several of the bigger types that we saw on Voyager.
This group decides to undertake the journey perhaps having come across a wormhole that is stable long enough for everyone to go through, using a faster than warp propulsion system they took from prey; or they take the long route with regular warp drive.

Once in the Alpha/Beta Quadrant the Hirogen start to target the various native civilizations, not necessarily attacking homeworlds, large colonies, and major installations, but definitely ships that travel between the systems, from civilian vessels to patrol ships to even some of the larger exploration and warships.

As the Hirogen are not interested in regular conquest they don't bother setting up colonies or seek to control large portions of space (but probably would make sure that the areas of space where large portions of their population reside on ships or perhaps even space stations are under their control), instead they take whatever they need from the ships and space stations of those they hunt.
They seek to avoid any major reprisals from the native civilizations and especially the super powers, avoiding any task force or fleets send after them unless the Hirogen have the numbers or firepower to take these on. (calling in a couple of the bigger ships)

How would the civilizations and major governments handle such a invasion from the Delta Quadrant?
There is no diplomatic solution possible as the Hirogen see ever other being as prey and do not care to open a dialogue with them in general, so this is not an enemy the Federation can make a treaty with.
The Klingons and Romulans would probably fight them (especially the Klingons who may see them as an adversary with similarities to themselves) and I could see the Hirogen taking cloaking technology from either of them.

 

[I_like_andorians]

Interesting thought, though I think they will get crushed like a bug under a boot.
Their technology is still inferior to that of the Federation, let alone the Romulans and klingons.
They most likely will take ships they defeat, but not in large enough quantities. They prefer the hunt far more than they like technology.

All wars (history and StarTrek), brings the drive to technologically advance. Without a form of base or large research centers and manufactoring sites, the Hirogen would not be able to keep up with all other races adapting to a new form of war/warfare.

The Hirogen are also not used to being a "collective" or should I say "being part of a working group". They are hunters. And like all hunters, they work in small groups, rarely expanding into larger fleets.
I don't think the Hirogen would be able to strategically cooperate to invade the alpha/beta quadrant.

The Hirogen, in order to advance, would have to invade some planets. Not all races build their ships in space dock. Some, build ships on planetary surface. Not only that, they will have to crush nation minerals / resource. Thus they will have to invade planets. Wether or not the Hirogen can function as a military, I am not sure. However one planetary invasion would obliterate even the largest of armies.

The alpha and beta quad has a vast amount of races. All with varying technology. The Hirogen would have to adapt constantly to fight various races. And they have no base to adapt.

They would be fighting a war on all fronts. So they would need a form of ally or two in order to retreat, rest, rebuild and so on. There will be very few ally choices for them to pick from, and my doubts will be no one will want to ally with a race that offers them very little.

To survive a largely populated part of space, the Hirogen will be forced to adopt gorilla tactics. (Which is fine, because they would be used to that style of fighting any way). Employing a gorilla stance on fighting will prevent them from being surrounded on all sides, and spotted on sensors easier and so on.
However, a gorilla stance would split their fleets up, leaving them far more vulnerable.

I think there is far more I could add, but I thought I would keep it simple. The Hirogens would need a epic invasion fleet to scratch the alpha/beta. I personally think they would just about get through Romulan space before being over stretched and exhausted. Cool thought though.

 

[thribs]

Not their style. They're a lone wolf species.

 

[The Wormhole]

Starfleet would defeat them, and in a generation or two we're seeing Hirogen bridge officers on Starfleet ships and Hirogen restaurants on Cardassian space stations and Hirogen firemen because of course there would be.

 

[Gary Mitchell]

Since they like hunting so much, they should be introduced to Tosk from the Gamma quadrant.

 

[Ghost]

Interesting thought, though I think they will get crushed like a bug under a boot.
Their technology is still inferior to that of the Federation, let alone the Romulans and klingons.
They most likely will take ships they defeat, but not in large enough quantities. They prefer the hunt far more than they like technology.

Their ship armor technology was superior to Voyager's phasers which could not penetrate it and in "Flesh and Blood" we see that the Hirogen have some really big ships.
Their ships' stalking mode while not equal to a cloaking device also gives them an advantage.
If anything I get the impression that their technology is pretty on par with that of the Federation.

The Hirogen, in order to advance, would have to invade some planets. Not all races build their ships in space dock. Some, build ships on planetary surface. Not only that, they will have to crush nation minerals / resource. Thus they will have to invade planets. Wether or not the Hirogen can function as a military, I am not sure. However one planetary invasion would obliterate even the largest of armies.

Well they must get new ships from somewhere and as they don't have a homeworld or colonies it strongly suggests that they have mastered manufacturing in space. (asteroid harvesting and such)
I would not be surprised if they have factory ships or space stations that can manufacture new ships and in this scenario this group would definitely bring such equipment with them.

The alpha and beta quad has a vast amount of races. All with varying technology. The Hirogen would have to adapt constantly to fight various races. And they have no base to adapt.

From what we heard on Voyager the Hirogen are pretty adaptable (or at least resilient). One of them who was hunting a member of Species 8472 (without the without the modified nano probe weapon the crew of Voyager made) previously chased a lifeform very close to a neutron star.
Plus there are quite some powerful civilizations in the Delta Quadrant (outside the Borg), some which have technology superior to that of the Federation. Seeing how the long the Hirogen have been hunting they must have run into some of these civilizations.

The Hirogen are also not used to being a "collective" or should I say "being part of a working group". They are hunters. And like all hunters, they work in small groups, rarely expanding into larger fleets.
I don't think the Hirogen would be able to strategically cooperate to invade the alpha/beta quadrant.

It would not be a "standard" invasion, they would not come here to take over the territories of the Federation, Klingons, Romulans etc. They are here to establish new hunting grounds and fight new challenging prey.

Not their style. They're a lone wolf species.

I mentioned that in my post but for the sake of this scenario a large group does decide to get together to travel to the Alpha/Beta Quadrant before a number of them leave to start hunting again.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

The Hirogen wouldn't have a lot of success setting up permanent colonies, that's a pretty damn long supply line. They could cause a menace, staying in hiding, murdering people. The fewer the numbers the more success they'd have. But any serious attempt to set up a major presence would probably lead to collective action by all the major powers, which they could not fight back against.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Since the Hirogen don't seem to give a shit if their prey is alive or hologram, the battle could be over quick if Starfleet hooks them up with a few of Admiral Dougherty's holoships from Insurrection. Then, the Hirogen could fight holographic Feds, Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, Breen, Kazon, Jem'Hadar or whoever to their little hearts content

 

[Infern0]

Their ship armor technology was superior to Voyager's phasers which could not penetrate it and in "Flesh and Blood" we see that the Hirogen have some really big ships.
Their ships' stalking mode while not equal to a cloaking device also gives them an advantage.
If anything I get the impression that their technology is pretty on par with that of the Federation.



Well they must get new ships from somewhere and as they don't have a homeworld or colonies it strongly suggests that they have mastered manufacturing in space. (asteroid harvesting and such)
I would not be surprised if they have factory ships or space stations that can manufacture new ships and in this scenario this group would definitely bring such equipment with them.



From what we heard on Voyager the Hirogen are pretty adaptable (or at least resilient). One of them who was hunting a member of Species 8472 (without the without the modified nano probe weapon the crew of Voyager made) previously chased a lifeform very close to a neutron star.
Plus there are quite some powerful civilizations in the Delta Quadrant (outside the Borg), some which have technology superior to that of the Federation. Seeing how the long the Hirogen have been hunting they must have run into some of these civilizations.



It would not be a "standard" invasion, they would not come here to take over the territories of the Federation, Klingons, Romulans etc. They are here to establish new hunting grounds and fight new challenging prey.



I mentioned that in my post but for the sake of this scenario a large group does decide to get together to travel to the Alpha/Beta Quadrant before a number of them leave to start hunting again.

One thing about DQ tech is that a lot of it was superior to Voyagers tech which was upto 7 years old by the last season.

Starfleet went through pretty substantial overhaul just after Voyager left due to the dominion war. I.e Quantum Torpedos which we know we're at least 2x as powerful as Voyager's photons. They also started getting multi vector assault vessels, purpose built battleships and so on.

So you could say by the time Voyager faced the Hirogen they were actually pretty out of date for a starfleet ship. (As well as by no means being a combat specific ship, more a mid range explorer)

DITL estimates the sovereign class as being 5x as powerful as a standard intrepid so tbh there isn't much in the Delta Quadrant that would stand up too well at all vs that (save Borg, voth and 8472)

 

[TommyR01D]

When the series started, Voyager was "the match of any vessel within a hundred light years". Other than the Sikarians and the Nacene, the races encountered in the first two seasons lacked transporters and replicators - hell, the Kazon couldn't even get water!

From season 3 onwards we see more and more advanced species whose technology can rival or even surpass our heroes', to the extent that it sometimes feels as if Janeway's crew are the only people who can't traverse the whole galaxy at a whim. Notably, Voyager itself was hardly factory spec by 2378, having accumulated various enhancements from foreign technology collected along the way.

 

[Ghost]

So you could say by the time Voyager faced the Hirogen they were actually pretty out of date for a starfleet ship. (As well as by no means being a combat specific ship, more a mid range explorer)

DITL estimates the sovereign class as being 5x as powerful as a standard intrepid so tbh there isn't much in the Delta Quadrant that would stand up too well at all vs that (save Borg, voth and 8472)

You do need to keep in mind that the improvement Starfleet R&D made to their vessels' arsenals/offensive and defensive technologies were primarily against adversaries Starfleet knew off; Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians in the past, the Borg, the Dominion, and later on the Breen in the present.
The Breen allying with the Dominion showed that despite all the lessons Starfleet had learned in the previous five years that complete new weapons such as the energy drainer could still overcome Starfleet's best ships. (the discovery regarding the Klingon ship that was immune to the weapon was a happy accident)

The Hirogen have been around for quite a while so they like the Borg must have also come into contact with various prey that at first had much better weaponry than the Hirogen had.
Now this is some fan speculation which I confess (but so are the stats on DITL) but there is this idea that the Hirogen will take technology from the ships of defeated prey, to replace their own worn out technology (because I doubt their own standardized components are not easy to get by seeing how wide spread the Hirogen are) but also any better weaponry they can use.

Of course none of that would be widespread on its own, I have my own doubts that these hunters that came across interesting new things would have shared all their findings with other hunters, let alone the engineers on any larger vessels that do have manufacturing capabilities and those Hirogen onboard only deemed fit as engineers.
So there would not be any general improvement of all their ships, just a lot of very customized smaller and larger vessels.

Again do keep in mind that this is not a standard invasion, more a migration of a large group that seek fresh new territory to hunt in.
If Starfleet and the other major galactic civilizations would put their differences aside they would probably deal with the Hirogen quickly but that is only if the Hirogen would pose a great threat to all of them instead of just their citizens at the fringes of their territories and the occasional patrol ship.

Also if we take it that the Hirogen migration arrives after the end of DSN, VGR, and Nemesis, that they would find a region of space whose inhabitants are still dealing with the after effects of a devastating war (the Klingons still need to rebuild, the Cardassian Union lies in ruins and their and probably Breen space are currently overseen by Starfleet, the Klingon Empire, and the Romulan Empire which ties up a lot of ships), and the Romulan Star Empire which is probably in a civil war with the deaths of all members of the Romulan Senate and Shinzon's failed Reman revolution.
There aren't going to be many big well organized governments around with ships and people to spare against an opponent that primarily does hit and run attacks.

Voyager itself was hardly factory spec by 2378, having accumulated various enhancements from foreign technology collected along the way.

Rather off topic and better reserved for the Voyager thread but I really wish that the new devices and other technology Voyager collected would have be referred to and used in follow up episodes like that cannon designed to take out Hirogen ships.