Was the directive broken?

[I_like_andorians]

I apologise if this has been asked before, however I have always struggled with a few questions.

There is a episode where Paris hits warp 10. In short, he steals janeway, they turn into lizard people and have beautiful lizard sex in a swamp.

They do however make lizard slug babies.
And they leave the Lizard slug babies on the swamp planet. Is this not breaking the prime directive?

And to this point, didn't they essentially hit warp 10 in next gen? So why didn't picard turn into a lizard slug and make lizard slug babies with Worf?

 

[Guy Gardener]

In TNG Traveller accessed higher dimensions to travel and didn't touch warp ten, unless you mean Warp 13 from all good things, which most of attribute to a rescaling of the warp factors.

Tom had a defect in his brain that specifically made him turn into a lizard, which the doctor noticed before his ground breaking trip, and why Tom was disqualified from being the pilot who broke warp 10.

Most everyone else would have been fine warping at 10.

 

[I_like_andorians]

Ahh ok. So I think I need to re watch TNG.
Though Tom kinda had a defect though. Janeway didn't, but still turned into a lizard.
But again, did leaving their lizard offspring on the planet violate the prime directive?

 

[Guy Gardener]

No.

But I think littering is awful.

 

[I_like_andorians]

 

[Sophie74656]

The prime directive involves interfering with prewarp cultures and affecting the natural development of a civilization. Since those babies were on an uninhabited planet and would probably die shortly after anyway, it was not a violation of anything. Just weird.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The prime directive involves interfering with prewarp cultures and affecting the natural development of a civilization. Since those babies were on an uninhabited planet and would probably die shortly after anyway, it was not a violation of anything. Just weird.

Actually... B'Elanna and Janeway said that that bollocks with those baby hungry Robots in Prototype was a prime directive issue, and those droids were in charge of technologies superior to the Federation.

Meanwhile we were told about teraforming in season one of TNG. The Federation won't touch a planet that is potentially EVER, even billions of years later into the future might sprout sentient lifeforms.

The Prime Directive is about protecting the future, even if there's a bloody lot of it, some might say too much, to protect.

 

[I_like_andorians]

So creating a weird offspring that could only exist because two humans traveled at warp 10, and leaving them to possibly inhabit an entire planet in the delta quadrant would not be violating the prime directive?
What if they created 100 androids (let's say 100 data's) and left them to colonise a planet (in a some what technologicaly disadvantaged sector), would that then be going against the prime directive?

 

[I_like_andorians]

So creating a weird offspring that could only exist because two humans traveled at warp 10, and leaving them to possibly inhabit an entire planet in the delta quadrant would not be violating the prime directive?
What if they created 100 androids (let's say 100 data's) and left them to colonise a planet (in a some what technologicaly disadvantaged sector), would that then be going against the prime directive?

My reasoning or thought is, if you can't give a kazon a replicator, because that would tip the ballence of the quadrant, then surely you can't leave a species (they created) to manafest into a civilisation. Yeah they are slug things, but who knows how they will develop.
With janeways charm and paris's pretty face, they may become the next kim and Kanye West in the delta quadrant you know? Thus killing the quadrant with bad music and terrible tv....

 

[Sophie74656]

So creating a weird offspring that could only exist because two humans traveled at warp 10, and leaving them to possibly inhabit an entire planet in the delta quadrant would not be violating the prime directive?
What if they created 100 androids (let's say 100 data's) and left them to colonise a planet (in a some what technologicaly disadvantaged sector), would that then be going against the prime directive?

There were not enough to start a population especially when they are siblings. They will probably die quickly. Who knows if there is even food they can eat on that planer or something else that may come along and eat them.

 

[Tenacity]

Many thousands of years later, when those two lizard babies have resulted in a planet wide civilization, the people from that time will discover that their DNA is completely different from any of the other life on the planet.

 

[I_like_andorians]

There were not enough to start a population especially when they are siblings. They will probably die quickly. Who knows if there is even food they can eat on that planer or something else that may come along and eat them.

Though I some what agree, have you ever seen animals mate? My two cats are from the same mother, but they love to have relations. And what do we know, or the crew of voayger know about this new species they have created? How fast can they breed? How do they breed?
How intelligent are they?

Also what do they eat? And how do they survive? Perhaps their existence on the planet would obliterate the ecosystem? Surely an ecosystem is also protected in the prime directive?

in reality, if I go to Malaysia, and get a container of ants, and bring it back to the UK, I will be arrested. Because those ants have the potential to harm our economy system. Or look at Australia. Rabbits were taken there (just a few) and they bread stupidly fast. Australia had serious issues with rabbits for a long time and tried to extremity them all. Hence why we have import export rules to protect eco systems.
Surely the prime directive would cover some thing like this?

 

[I_like_andorians]

The prime directive involves interfering with prewarp cultures and affecting the natural development of a civilization. Since those babies were on an uninhabited planet and would probably die shortly after anyway, it was not a violation of anything. Just weird.

Just to say, the prime directive also involves sentient life. A bug, or creature on this planet is sentient. Who knows how the Lizard babies would affect the sentient life on this planet.

 

[Sophie74656]

Just to say, the prime directive also involves sentient life. A bug, or creature on this planet is sentient. Who knows how the Lizard babies would affect the sentient life on this planet.

Was there any?

 

[I_like_andorians]

Was there any?

There were not enough to start a population especially when they are siblings. They will probably die quickly. Who knows if there is even food they can eat on that planer or something else that may come along and eat them.

I don't know. You were the one who said, "who knows some thing else may come along and eat them"....
My point being is, who knows. Maybe there is some thing there. Before humans and animals walked the earth, algae and bacteria ruled our surface. And many of our first creatures and animals lived off this algae. Without our algae, we would not be here today. So perhaps these lizard slug babies would destroy this planets algae thus preventing some form of evolution to take place...

So I guess the constant answer will be "Who knows" as the episode ends moments after seeing slug babies and Janeway and Paris return to voyager.

Though I would like to think, Yes it is breaking the prime directive. No one, crew or audience can tell what damage the two new life forms would cause. How they will react to this world, and how they will develop.
It's easy to hypothesise they will die in 20 minuets, just as easy to hypothesise they will instantly mate or duplicate, or live like locusts.

 

[I_like_andorians]

Was there any?

Just re-watched the scene and yes, there were. You don't see them, but you can here all forms of bird sounds, and what sounds like crickets and various other life forms.

 

[Abi Smith]

In Enterprise, Hoshi moved her new slug friend to a whole new world, setting a precedent for interplanetary invasive species relocation.

 

[I_like_andorians]

In Enterprise, Hoshi moved her new slug friend to a whole new world, setting a precedent for interplanetary invasive species relocation.

That is a very good point. I forgot about that. I'm halfway through Enterprise at the moment, but Enterprise is kinda meant to be before a prime directive was created though no? I thought the point of Enterprise was to watch the creation of the prime directive through the mistakes of the early days? Though Im not sure because I haven't finished it yet.
NO ONE Give ME SPOILERS!!

 

[Tenacity]

Was there any?

over the course of millions of years? good question.

 

[marsh8472]

From TNG "Home Soil"

CRUSHER: What is the source of the flashes?
COMPUTER: Unable to specify. Theoretically not possible from this substance.
CRUSHER: Disregard incongruity and theorise as to source.
COMPUTER: Life.

[Ready room]

MANDL: What do you mean a life form?! What life form?! A Federation recon expedition certified Velara Three lifeless.
PICARD: Understandable, given this particular life form's novel nature.
MANDL: What is that nature?
PICARD: Doctor Crusher is still making her determination. Mister Mandl, you know the Prime Directive.
MANDL: Are you saying that I knowingly defied it?
PICARD: That's what I have to find out. You're a man obsessed with what you do. Who knows what an obsessed man will do to keep going? Kill, perhaps?
MANDL: I create life. I don't take it.

They considered killing a lifeform a violation of the prime directive. Introducing a new lifeform to an environment could disrupt the entire food chain killing many lifeforms. That would sound equally serious to me.

Or in Star Trek 2 where they weren't allowed to test the genesis device on a planet that had even a single microbe of life on it

CAROL: Then again it may not. You boys have to be clear on this. There can't be so much as a microbe or the show's off. Why don't you have a look? But if it is something that can be moved I want...