I've been watching it and find it ok. Not great but good enough to keep me watching. It's basically Futurama in medieval times
Disenchantment
- Thread starter Kelthaz
- Start date
Imagine that Homer Simpson is the only straight white/yellow man you’ve ever seen and people constantly compare you to him.
Or you could just have the character voiced by someone of Indian decent and stop making him be a comical stereotype or at least subvert it. In comparison Fat Tony who is an Italian stereotype, but voiced by an actor of Italian decent and finds it funny to play the character.
I absolutely can understand and appreciate that frustration. I imagine it is something very hard to live with. At the same time, The Simpsons don't have any kind of trademark or copyright on Indian characters. The existence of Apu hasn't kept creators and content providers from adding their own positive Indian characters for the last thirty years. That is on those creators and content providers, not The Simpsons.
Apu is the nexus of frustration because he is popular. But blaming the character and The Simpsons' is simply letting others who are the problem off the hook.
Yet it continues to contribute to the problem. It’s one thing if Apu has faded away like other Simpsons characters. But they’ve doubled down on it.
But they actually haven't. If you look at the article I posted above from show writer Mike Reiss.
They did an episode last year where Lisa of all people dismissed it as being too PC and that there is just nothing they can do about it.
That is their right to have that viewpoint. We are all learning that the world is changing. That doesn't change the fact that Apu has appeared sparingly since the beginning of 2016.
Maybe it is too PC, maybe it isn't? We rarely move in lockstep when we change. We don't all come to the same conclusions on the same day at the same time. Why would we expect that of the writers room on a TV show?
Roddenberry is seen as a champion of diversity. But he didn't start out that way. NBC had to tell him to diversify the white Trek cast after the first pilot. Maybe The Simpson's becomes a better show because of this, maybe it doesn't.
Let me start by saying that I very much enjoyed the first season of "Disenchantment".
Now, about the "Apu" thing. The whole debate reminds me about the backlash Russell T. Davies experienced over "Queer as Folk", how it wasn't representative of how the majority of gay people really are, that it feeds into stereotypes (drug abuse, casual sex, sex with minors, etc.) of the gay community, and so on. And RTD's response was that, while it wasn't representative of the majority of the gay community as a whole, it was never supposed to be, that it only depicted a part of the gay community (to which RTD could testify by personal experience) and the real problem was that there was so little other representation of gay people in media (remember, that was about fifteen years ago).
And that seems to be the crux of the Apu problem to me. The problem was never that Apu was a stereotypical character in a series that was filled with almost no exception with stereotypical characters (as the show itself was about making fun of stereotypes themselves), the problem was the lack of non-stereotypical Indian and/or Indian-American characters in American media as a whole. And because of that, so many people took Apu as representative when he never was supposed to be.
Now, about the "Apu" thing. The whole debate reminds me about the backlash Russell T. Davies experienced over "Queer as Folk", how it wasn't representative of how the majority of gay people really are, that it feeds into stereotypes (drug abuse, casual sex, sex with minors, etc.) of the gay community, and so on. And RTD's response was that, while it wasn't representative of the majority of the gay community as a whole, it was never supposed to be, that it only depicted a part of the gay community (to which RTD could testify by personal experience) and the real problem was that there was so little other representation of gay people in media (remember, that was about fifteen years ago).
And that seems to be the crux of the Apu problem to me. The problem was never that Apu was a stereotypical character in a series that was filled with almost no exception with stereotypical characters (as the show itself was about making fun of stereotypes themselves), the problem was the lack of non-stereotypical Indian and/or Indian-American characters in American media as a whole. And because of that, so many people took Apu as representative when he never was supposed to be.
The only thing that really bugs me with the whole Apu thing is that practically ever character on the show is a stereotype to one degree or another, and every non-American or non-white character is at least as much of a stereotype as Apu is.
I completely understand why people are upset about it, but I just think it's a bit unfair to single him out.
I completely understand why people are upset about it, but I just think it's a bit unfair to single him out.
As Kai just said, though, the difference is that it's the media as a whole that singled him out, by failing to provide alternative representation. A character like, say, Groundskeeper Willie isn't as much of a problem, since there are plenty of alternative portrayals of Scottish characters on TV. Ditto for Bumblebee Man and Latinos.
Fortunately we have made some strides in Indian and Indian-American representation on US television, with actors like Sendhil Ramamurthy, Kal Penn, Naveen Andrews, Priyanka Chopra, Janina Gavankar, and others rising to prominence. (Although they don't always get cast as Indian characters, e.g. Andrews playing an Iraqi on LOST.) So things are showing signs of improvement. But that doesn't mean it isn't valuable to have a conversation about the issues Apu raises.
Well, keep in mind that the character of Apu was based on what was then a stock cultural stereotype of Indian immigrants as convenience store clerks. As with the older stereotype of Irish policemen, it was a cliche that arose in the media because it actually was common in real life at that time for that particular job to be commonly filled by immigrants from a certain country or region, because there was a wave of immigration from that country around that time and immigrants have usually tended to be relegated to lower-paying, less reputable jobs (yes, police work was considered unskilled and disreputable back in the day).
After all, that's how stereotype humor works -- it plays on the images of a given culture or group that are already common in society. It's humor based on recognition, on reminding people of a belief or trope that they find familiar, much like an in-joke or a pop culture reference. Apu didn't exist in isolation; he was a distillation of the existing stereotypes of convenience store workers (not only that they tended to be Indian immigrants with heavy accents, but that they were constantly getting robbed, that the food they offered was ancient, etc.).
Getting back on topic, I just finished the season.
I didn't like episode 7, the one where Elfo lied about his girlfriend. Not only was it generally not funny, but it didn't make sense. We'd seen in the premiere that Elfo really did have a girlfriend -- the village chief's hot daughter, no less -- and we saw that relationship called back in episode 9. So it doesn't make sense for episode 7 to portray him as a loser who has to lie about success with women. If he wanted to boast of his prowess, the truth should've sufficed.
Fortunately, the last three episodes are a massive improvement. The closing minutes of episode 9 literally had me in tears. That was a really unexpected turn to poignancy, with some startling revelations that were nonetheless nicely set up in prior episodes, and with Bean having to make an agonizing choice. Really powerful stuff there. Although the finale kind of negated a lot of the emotional impact of episode 9 by revealing that all was not as it seemed. It was a pretty epic finale, but I'm not a fan of cliffhanger season endings that leave a ton of unanswered questions.
Fortunately, the last three episodes are a massive improvement. The closing minutes of episode 9 literally had me in tears. That was a really unexpected turn to poignancy, with some startling revelations that were nonetheless nicely set up in prior episodes, and with Bean having to make an agonizing choice. Really powerful stuff there. Although the finale kind of negated a lot of the emotional impact of episode 9 by revealing that all was not as it seemed. It was a pretty epic finale, but I'm not a fan of cliffhanger season endings that leave a ton of unanswered questions.
My background is indian and personally I don't buy into the controversy over apu. I love Apu and Hari Kondabolu certainly doesn't speak for me. Yeah, growing up i'd get the 'please come again' jokes by white kids but then I'd just give it back to them for being a ginger, or having a dinky eye or any number of things. Stupid kids being kids. Next minute we'd be quoting apu and singing 'who needs a Kwik E Mart'. The Simpsons was full of stereotypes. I'm Australian as well and there is an entire episode about us being a bunch of backwards hicks who give things names like chuzzwuzzahs and don't know what coffee is. It's hilarious.
On topic Disenchantment started slow but got going by the end. I loved the serialisation and how things that seemed pointless or meaningless to start ended up being important to the plot. Plus kudos to them getting Matt Berry to voice Prince Merkimer.
On topic Disenchantment started slow but got going by the end. I loved the serialisation and how things that seemed pointless or meaningless to start ended up being important to the plot. Plus kudos to them getting Matt Berry to voice Prince Merkimer.
Absolutely!
And as four of the cast members (Matt Berry, Noel Fielding, Rich Fulcher and Lucy Montgomery) have all starred or appeared in the British comedy The Mighty Boosh, I wonder if it might be a favourite of some of the creative team.
Got a theory about future reveals in the show. Putting it in spoilers just in case I'm right.
we see a bunch of strange animal creatures at the end who are from Dagmar's kingdom. Queen Dagmar is a white mouse creature who has been magically turned Human. The white hair is a clue, as are the buck teeth of her daughter. Bean is clearly going to get turned back into her true non human hybrid form (Dis-enchanted, if you will), and that will allow her to be compatible with a ressurected Elfo
Having Elfo obsessed/in love with with Bean is easily the worst part of the series thus far. They desperately need to expand the central cast so they can do away with it ASAP.
Similar threads
- Sticky