Klingon redundancies

[WarpFactorZ]

When Discovery introduced the idea of redundancies in Klingon anatomy, I recall the forum collectively scoffed at this retcon. However, tonight I was watching "Ethics" (TNG S5 E16), in which the following dialogue is exchanged:

RUSSELL: Overdesigned. Klingon anatomy. Twenty three ribs, two livers, eight-chambered heart, double-lined neural pia mater. I've never seen so many unnecessary redundancies in one body.
CRUSHER: Unnecessary? The Klingons refer to it as the brak'lul. Almost every vital function in their bodies has a built-in redundancy in case any primary organ or system fails.
RUSSELL: It's a good design in theory, but in practice, all the extra organs means just that much more that can go wrong. Let me show you something. I've been experimenting with DNA based generators. This is a genetronic replicator. It reads the DNA coding of damaged organs, translates that into a specific set of replicant instructions and then begins to grow a replacement.

Did I miss something, or did no one mention this? Seems to me the Discovery people did their homework!

 

[Agony_Boothb]

Really? I thought everyone knew about Klingon redundant organs.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Yeah, that was already known among most of us nerds around here. I think it was just extending the redundancy theme to the double-dicker Klingons that was a bit much for some people. It didn't bother me, though. I just found it a mildly amusing if somewhat juvenile throwaway joke.

 

[Timo]

With the "variety because genetic engineering" theories thrown about to explain the DSC Klingon looks, one is tempted to think the redundancies were deliberately manufactured, too - fairly recently, and probably also unevenly. Not every Klingon bloodline might opt for the same upgrades, and a peek inside a Klingon body would always be a journey full of surprises.

No wonder McCoy was out of his depth when treating Gorkon! His trusty sickbay computer might well have been able to walk him through the patient's innards, but without its help, he'd get no benefit from those many preceding encounters between Earth/UFP doctors and Klingons. Even if he himself had experience with vivisecting a Klingon (and he states he has none), it would be unlikely to help in this specific case.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

Did I miss something, or did no one mention this? Seems to me the Discovery people did their homework!

I know I brought this up at least twice before, and I wasn't the first. But then, who listens to me...

It also casts new light on Worf's protestations in "Justice" (TNG) and elsewhere about having to "restrain himself" too much with human women...and on Guinan's refutation of this in "Yesterday's Enterprise" (TNG)...and on his and Jadzia's visit to the infirmary in "Looking For Par'Mach In All The Wrong Places" (DS9)...and so on!

-MMoM

 

[INACTIVERedDwarf]

Maybe part of the reason Klingon disruptor weapons, and Starfleet phasers, are given the capacity to vaporize targets is for extra 'stopping power'; ballistic or plasma weapons that damaged a single organ were not as effective at putting down some alien soldiers as weapons that destroy an entire organ system (although I'm sure they killed most of the time anyway).

 

[Awesome Possum]

Maybe part of the reason Klingon disruptor weapons, and Starfleet phasers, are given the capacity to vaporize targets is for extra 'stopping power'; ballistic or plasma weapons that damaged a single organ were not as effective at putting down some alien soldiers as weapons that destroy an entire organ system (although I'm sure they killed most of the time anyway).

It would explain how Klingons seem to go overboard with fighting and killing. They're extremely hard to kill unless you go overboard, that's their normal.

 

[Groppler Zorn]

I think it was just extending the redundancy theme to the double-dicker Klingons that was a bit much for some people.

It makes me wonder (also in light of the quote below) whether it was just that one Klingon who had a double organ. He was seen in the Orion neighbourhood in close proximity to a brothel. It might have been a designer thing...

Not every Klingon bloodline might opt for the same upgrades, and a peek inside a Klingon body would always be a journey full of surprises.

Especially the Klingon we see with two *ahem* organs. Maybe the orions would charge people more for a night with him...?

I know I brought this up at least twice before, and I wasn't the first. But then, who listens to me...

If it’s any consolation I do - discussing DSC with you has been rather enlightening for me, especially as far as a certain USS Melbourne is concerned

It also casts new light on Worf's protestations in "Justice" (TNG) and elsewhere about having to "restrain himself" too much with human women...and on Guinan's refutation of this in "Yesterday's Enterprise" (TNG)...and on his and Jadzia's visit to the infirmary in "Looking For Par'Mach In All The Wrong Places" (DS9)...and so on!

Only if we assume all Klingons have the exact same biology as the one we see peeing against the wall. I’d be inclined to think that guy had some kind of designer surgery to set him apart in the Orion district...

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

If it’s any consolation I do - discussing DSC with you has been rather enlightening for me, especially as far as a certain USS Melbourne is concerned

No consolation necessary, really, but thanks nonetheless! I'll be getting back to our discussion there, too, but it's past my bedtime at the moment...

Only if we assume all Klingons have the exact same biology as the one we see peeing against the wall. I’d be inclined to think that guy had some kind of designer surgery to set him apart in the Orion district...

Anything's possible, but that's nowhere near as fun, IMO! And do keep in mind that it's Worf himself that Russell is talking about in "Ethics" (TNG)...

-MMoM

 

[Timo]

Maybe part of the reason Klingon disruptor weapons, and Starfleet phasers, are given the capacity to vaporize targets is for extra 'stopping power'; ballistic or plasma weapons that damaged a single organ were not as effective at putting down some alien soldiers as weapons that destroy an entire organ system (although I'm sure they killed most of the time anyway).

In light of this, it is no wonder that Starfleet heroes in both DSC and TOS opt to fight the Klingons with their sidearms set on stun. A single stun shot typically drops the enemy nicely enough, whereas multiple kill shots have failed to get the job done in DSC at least.

Burnham's decision to flip her gun from stun to kill after T'Kumva finishes off Georgiou then gets a new interpretation: she still intends to take a prisoner, but now she wants the nonlethal process to hurt.

(Starfleet at this point would know way more about Klingon anatomy than about Klingon culture. But stun is a good choice in the latter sense as well, as getting captured alive hurts Klingons per se.)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[ITDUDE]

Ask any male of any species if the dick is a vital organ or not. Makes sense that all male Klingons would have two, since all vital organs are doubled.

 

[The Wormhole]

The thing about the biological redundancies is that if they really work the way they're described in Ethics, it should be impossible to kill a Klingon with something as simple as one stab with a dagger and yet we constantly see Klingons killed in exactly that manner. Appropriately enough, one of the only times this redundancy is mentioned, it's done so with a penis joke. But that can't be the case, this is Star Trek, paragon on scientific ideas and intellectual storytelling. A scene with a guy pissing double streams to represent two dicks sounds like something Seth MacFarlane would do on Orville.

 

[WraithDukat]

I thought this was going to be about the mass shut down of factories on Kronos due to the outsourcing of work to less developed and therefore cheaper worlds.

 

[Kor]

It makes me wonder (also in light of the quote below) whether it was just that one Klingon who had a double organ. He was seen in the Orion neighbourhood in close proximity to a brothel. It might have been a designer thing...


Especially the Klingon we see with two *ahem* organs. Maybe the orions would charge people more for a night with him...?


If it’s any consolation I do - discussing DSC with you has been rather enlightening for me, especially as far as a certain USS Melbourne is concerned


Only if we assume all Klingons have the exact same biology as the one we see peeing against the wall. I’d be inclined to think that guy had some kind of designer surgery to set him apart in the Orion district...

Judging by MULorca's judgey remark to L'Rell in Choose Your Pain about "the right number," it's understood that Klingon males generally have a different number of them than humans. But I suppose that with designer surgery and maybe genetic engineering as possible factors, and the fact that Lorca didn't state a specific number, then perhaps that number isn't necessarily always two.

Um...

Kor

 

[DaveyNY]

I know I brought this up at least twice before, and I wasn't the first. But then, who listens to me...

It also casts new light on Worf's protestations in "Justice" (TNG) and elsewhere about having to "restrain himself" too much with human women...and on Guinan's refutation of this in "Yesterday's Enterprise" (TNG)...and on his and Jadzia's visit to the infirmary in "Looking For Par'Mach In All The Wrong Places" (DS9)...and so on!

-MMoM

Heh...
All the Dax's were horn-dogs.

That scene would have been a lot funnier if Worf had been the one injured.

 

[Kor]

Heh...
All the Dax's were horn-dogs.

That scene would have been a lot funnier if Worf had been the one injured.

As I recall, both Jadzia and Worf were rather beat up.

Kor

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

Ask any male of any species if the dick is a vital organ or not. Makes sense that all male Klingons would have two, since all vital organs are doubled.

Indeed. How is a Klingon supposed to make sure his bloodline moves forward if he loses his only penis in battle?

Sure, I suppose modern medicine might be able to harvest sperm from the penis-less Klingon and artificially inseminate his Klingon mate, but that would not be a very Klingon way to procreate.

EDIT TO ADD: Don't ask me how likely it is that he'd lose just one of the two in battle...,just go with it.

 

[DaveyNY]

Indeed. How is a Klingon supposed to make sure his bloodline moves forward if he loses his only penis in battle?

Sure, I suppose modern medicine might be able to harvest sperm from the penis-less Klingon and artificially inseminate his Klingon mate, but that would not be a very Klingon way to procreate.

EDIT TO ADD: Don't ask me how likely it is that he'd lose just one of the two in battle...,just go with it.

Naked Bat'leth 'Affair-of-Honor' Duels ?

 

[Groppler Zorn]

Judging by MULorca's judgey remark to L'Rell in Choose Your Pain about "the right number," it's understood that Klingon males generally have a different number of them than humans. But I suppose that with designer surgery and maybe genetic engineering as possible factors, and the fact that Lorca didn't state a specific number, then perhaps that number isn't necessarily always two.

Um...

Kor

By the hand (and multiple potential members) of Kahless, more than two...!

Well DSC has certainly made the Klingons more interesting in the biology department if nothing else!

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

Naked Bat'leth 'Affair-of-Honor' Duels ?

So what your'e saying (as long as you allow me to put words in your mouth) is that in an honorable naked duel, one Klingon may slice off ONE of the penis in order to show dominance/send a message, but be honorable enough to allow the loser to retain the other penis.

That also shows great precision Bat'leth skills.