Star Trek 4 Hits A Snag

[Malaika]

Whenever I picture Uhura I see a Lupita Nyongo, at least Pegg tries to make a Scottish character sound Scottish and Yelchin attempts to sound Russian, Saldana's Uhura could be any female from the in universe United States. I give TOS and TNG a pass when it comes to African characters but not anymore.

That seems a bit arbitrary. Our one and only Uhura before Zoe is Nichelle Nichols, and I honestly fail to see where Lupita would be a more faithful adaptation of the character than Zoe. I don't remember Nichelle trying to sound Kenyan either...

Uhura isn't a character from a book where you have a specific description of her, and then you are comparing different movie adaptations with how the character is described in the original source text (eg. Storm). Uhura is Nichelle and now Zoe.. and there is no other original version of her before Nichelle. It seems like you are basically saying that Nichelle wasn't real Uhura either. I mean,......?!

And I'm all for casting african actors for african characters when they can, but just because an actress is from Kenya it doesn't make her more 'Uhura' than an afro-latina actress or, you know, the african american actress who originally played her and pretty much was the person who created the character and informed Zoe Saldana's casting still (in spite of them not looking for a clone). (**)

And it's trek. Uhura technically has a futuristic ethnicity that no one can have because The United States of Africa doesn't exist in our world. No actress can truly share Uhura's exact cultural background because even if they come from Kenya, it isn't the same version of the country and african continent (and earth!) the fictional character is from. Who is to say what is the most valid portrayal of a girl who comes from such place? How?


(**) Irony is that Lupita is more connected to her mexican nationality and culture because that's where she has lived the most. Just like Zoe is proud afro-latina but still identifies with her american nationality too. They both speak English and Spanish fluently.

Ps: interesting you think Zoe nailed Gamora, instead, in spite of the character being very different from the original comic version. Maybe you know other zehoberei people and the new version is more authentic to them? I don't know...

 

[TrickyDickie]

http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/05...tion-picture-and-thinks-you-should-too?page=2



Make of that what you will. I don't think the guy hates Trek or anything, but reading this interview years ago I thought it odd that Urban mentioned this.

I don't think you'll ever see Pine at a Star Trek convention.

Seems to me that Pine wants to distance himself from the rabid fans who foam at the mouth.

Urban is a true fan himself, accepts things as they are, and has had his rabies shot.

Very true because for me Urban, Pine and Quinto nailed the K,S,M characters, however the other parts could be done by any competent actor, especially Uhura. If they replaced Saldana it would be no great loss to me, (however she nails the part of Gamora in the Galaxy movies). Whenever I picture Uhura I see a Lupita Nyongo, at least Pegg tries to make a Scottish character sound Scottish and Yelchin attempts to sound Russian, Saldana's Uhura could be any female from the in universe United States. I give TOS and TNG a pass when it comes to black African characters but not anymore.

When you compare Zoe's two roles like that....I wonder how much might be the Trek scripts. I wouldn't call her work flat or 'wooden'.

I was slow to warm to Pegg and Yelchin, but finally did. And then....

I don't dislike Keenser as a character. But as a tag-along 'sidekick' for Scotty....that doesn't play very well.

 

[johnjm22]

I don't think Quinto has done a good job with Spock at all. He portrays him the same way all the mediocre actors portray Vulcans; smug and preachy.

Really only Nimoy, Lenard and Russ have ever done a good job playing Vulcans. Kristy Alley and Robin Curtis weren't bad either.

 

[Kane_Steel]

This is mostly the fault of Abrams.

If Abrams was dragging his feet, Paramount should have pushed forward without him. Star Trek Into Darkness was what killed this franchise.

Star Trek 4 won't be enough to save it now. Too little, too late.

 

[Lord Garth]

Into Darkness should've come out in 2011. Well, not true. I don't like ID. A different sequel should've come out in 2011. But either way, my opinion of the second film aside, they should've struck while the iron was hot and they had the momentum.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Star Trek Into Darkness was what killed this franchise.

Dead franchises don't get sequels, let alone 4th instalments

 

[Khan 2.0]

Dead franchises don't get sequels, let alone 4th instalments

Thinking of other franchises where the 3rd movie falters and then they do a 4th that bombs/puts the final nail in the coffin (at least for a while until it gets rebooted) - Superman, Batman (although Forever was a huge hit), Alien, Terminator (sort of), and of course TNG.

 

[Nyotarules]

That seems a bit arbitrary. Our one and only Uhura before Zoe is Nichelle Nichols, and I honestly fail to see where Lupita would be a more faithful adaptation of the character than Zoe. I don't remember Nichelle trying to sound Kenyan either...

Uhura isn't a character from a book where you have a specific description of her, and then you are comparing different movie adaptations with how the character is described in the original source text (eg. Storm). Uhura is Nichelle and now Zoe.. and there is no other original version of her before Nichelle. It seems like you are basically saying that Nichelle wasn't real Uhura either. I mean,......?!

And I'm all for casting african actors for african characters when they can, but just because an actress is from Kenya it doesn't make her more 'Uhura' than an afro-latina actress or, you know, the african american actress who originally played her and pretty much was the person who created the character and informed Zoe Saldana's casting still (in spite of them not looking for a clone). (**)

And it's trek. Uhura technically has a futuristic ethnicity that no one can have because The United States of Africa doesn't exist in our world. No actress can truly share Uhura's exact cultural background because even if they come from Kenya, it isn't the same version of the country and african continent (and earth!) the fictional character is from. Who is to say what is the most valid portrayal of a girl who comes from such place? How?


(**) Irony is that Lupita is more connected to her mexican nationality and culture because that's where she has lived the most. Just like Zoe is proud afro-latina but still identifies with her american nationality too. They both speak English and Spanish fluently.

Ps: interesting you think Zoe nailed Gamora, instead, in spite of the character being very different from the original comic version. Maybe you know other zehoberei people and the new version is more authentic to them? I don't know...

As I wrote in my post TOS Uhura gets a pass cos it was the 1960's, the T.V networks were pandering to an almost 100% North American audience. The focus with Hollywood these days is global, they recognise fans of the franchise are worldwide and have money to spend. The only reason why we expect Scotty to sound Scottish and Chekov to sound Russian is due to the late Doohan's and Koenig's efforts (whether successful or not). You can just as well argue in 200 years the Scottish accent and Russian accent might change, (but I doubt it). In ENT even Conner Trinner attempted a Southern accent (whether it was genuine or not I do not know) and even the actor who played British Reed was ...guess what, British. Do the actors have to come from the region they are portraying, I do not expect it but at least try to sound like you do. Even the Black Panther characters made an attempt at not using their real voices. I feel the same about a reboot Picard, if he is still going to be French, at least sound like a Frenchman.

Maybe you know other zehoberei people and the new version is more authentic to them? I don't know....

Yeah I do, I meet them all the time

 

[jaime]

As I wrote in my post TOS Uhura gets a pass cos it was the 1960's, the T.V networks were pandering to an almost 100% North American audience. The focus with Hollywood these days is global, they recognise fans for the franchise are worldwide and have money to spend. The only reason why we expect Scotty to sound Scottish and Chekov to sound Russian is due to the late Doohan's and Koenig's efforts (whether successful or not). You can just as well argue in 200 years the Scottish accent and Russian accent might change, (but I doubt it). In ENT even Conner Trinner attempted a Southern accent (whether it was genuine or not I do not know) and even the actor who played British Reed was ...guess what, British. Do the actors have to come from the region they are portraying, I do not expect it but at least try to sound like you do. Even the Black Panther characters made an attempt at not using their real voices. I feel the same about a reboot Picard, if he is still going to be French, at least sound like a Frenchman.



Yeah I do, I meet them all the time

True fact: I thought Reed was putting on his accent, so Hollywood RP was it.

 

[jaime]

I don't think Quinto has done a good job with Spock at all. He portrays him the same way all the mediocre actors portray Vulcans; smug and preachy.

Really only Nimoy, Lenard and Russ have ever done a good job playing Vulcans. Kristy Alley and Robin Curtis weren't bad either.

Basically every other Vulcan lead.
I am however, inclined to agree xD

 

[jaime]

That wouldn't surprise me. Urban has gone on record to say he likes TMP best. Now that's a sign of a true hardcore Trek fan if there ever was one.

I strongly suspect he lurks this board. I have no logical reason nor evidence for this. It’s just an impression I get. I Suspect Peggy took a gander at least once too.

 

[Nyotarules]

True fact: I thought Reed was putting on his accent, so Hollywood RP was it.

He was probably trying to sound posh, he is from Leicester, he used to be in Desmond's

 

[jaime]

They won't do another reboot right now but I'm dead sure they will in the 2020s. They'll have a third version of Kirk and Spock... and I'm not talking about Discovery. A third film version of the characters.

They've done it to Bond, they've done it to Batman, they've done it to Superman. They've done it to any characters who last long enough.

If TNG hadn't been around, we'd already be on a third version of Kirk and Spock. TFF would've been the last of the original films (TUC only exists because TNG kept interest in Star Trek around long enough for Paramount to want to do a 25th Annivesarry film), they would've rebooted Star Trek in the late-'90s or early-2000s, it would've run its course (how long these films would've lasted and how good they would've been doesn't matter and would be pure speculation); then sometime in the 2010s, a third version of them would've been introduced. There will still be a third version, it'll just happen later than it would've.

Adaptations!

That aside, I can’t see them Tora Ziyaling it.

 

[Smellmet]

I think they got the big three as good as I could have hoped for to be honest, especially Urban and Quinto, Pine was slightly different, I didn't really know what to expect with him as Shatner had such a unique style but I ended up liking his portrayal nonetheless. The rest of the cast were just fine, and did enough for me to buy into it.

 

[jaime]

He was probably trying to sound posh, he is from Leicester, he used to be in Desmond's

Desmond’s. I loved Desmond’s. A show that could never exist in any other time and place.

 

[jaime]

I think they got the big three as good as I could have hoped for to be honest, especially Urban and Quinto, Pine was slightly different, I didn't really know what to expect with him as Shatner had such a unique style but I ended up liking his portrayal nonetheless. The rest of the cast were just fine, and did enough for me to buy into it.

As time went on, I like Quinto less as Spock, and find Pine more acceptable. Scotty is technically better than Doohan, but I have a bias, as Pegg is one of my evil twins.

 

[Nyotarules]

Desmond’s. I loved Desmond’s. A show that could never exist in any other time and place.

Where they actually used a real African actor to play an African character lol

 

[jaime]

Where they actually used a real African actor to play an African character lol

Not only that, but everyone played the different ethnicities without being a stereotype...except when they were being very true to people’s real life experience. And everyone laughed at each other and sympathised with each other. The African was different to the Jamaican, different to the British etc etc, though the grand Dulux Chart Of América would probably stick them all in the same box!
Even the barber shop bits were convincing!
Me and my mates honestly thought we were gonna end up as old men something like that.

Babylon 5 almost manages it in the pilot if I recall.

 

[Nyotarules]

Not only that, but everyone played the different ethnicities without being a stereotype...except when they were being very true to people’s real life experience. And everyone laughed at each other and sympathised with each other. The African was different to the Jamaican, different to the British etc etc, though the grand Dulux Chart Of América would probably stick them all in the same box!
Even the barber shop bits were convincing!
Me and my mates honestly thought we were gonna end up as old men something like that.

Babylon 5 almost manages it in the pilot if I recall.

In the 21st century I would be impressed if the Star Trek franchise made the same attempt, but I am not holding my breathe. A crew that represents a fictional, future United Earth state still sounding like a real life USA? Oh well, its an American show, maybe in the future only North America survives the nuclear holocaust. If they cannot get Khan Noonien Singh right, what should I expect?

 

[Khan 2.0]

Forbes guy chimes in
https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottm...ake-the-pay-cut-for-star-trek-4/#1d273daf5d6c