What if Khan was picked up by someone else?

[Nyotarules]

Even though I know Ricardo Montalbán was fairly light-skinned, it really bugs me to see him described as "white" or "Caucasian." Because that's not what he was considered through most, if not all, of his working life. He was considered a Latino, a member of a minority, and he faced discrimination because of it. In fact, along with Henry Darrow (later Voyager's Kolopak) and others, he co-founded the Screen Actors' Guild Ethnic Minority Committee. He was also a co-founder of the Nosotros ("We") Foundation, which advocates for Latinos in TV and movies.

Montalbán never identified as white, and in fact would not have been allowed to do so because of his ethnicity. So while one can quite properly say that he was no more of an Indian than is Benedict Cumberbatch, to say he was as white as is Cumberbatch is not so true. Cumberbatch is white. Montalbán was Latino -- and to him, and in his life, that difference made a vast difference.

Because the fucked up racial politics of the USA was/is based on the premise only Northern Europeans are white which is a load of crap. Ever been to Spain, go tell them they are not 'White' but 'Latino' or Hispanic, they will laugh in your face. (His parents were Spanish immigrants and I lived with one for 2 years). Indigenous people from Spain are not a separate race from people from England, France or Germany. No matter what Americans believe.

P.S Right now I am on holiday in Madeira, a Portugese autonomous nation, some of the indigenous folks are as white as Donald Trump with a real tan. When the Irish and Italians migrated to the USA en masse, they were not considered White either... Like I said fucked up racial politics.

"The immigrants from the southern part of Italy and Sicily were not considered wholly white by Anglo-Saxon standards in North America. The US Immigration Department reinforced this distinction by classifying northern and southern Italians as two distinct caucasian ethnic groups."

 

[Maurice]

Deep space 9 Take me out to the holosuite
ENT Augment episodes

Although not specifying exactly how much stronger Spock is, Kirk does say this in "This Side of Paradise": "Mister Spock is much stronger than the ordinary human being. Aroused, his great physical strength could kill. But it's a risk I'll have to take."

 

[TrickyDickie]

Thing that always got me was how Khan knew so much about the Klingons

Here is a good answer for that, JB. Khan was given access to the Enterprise's library computer, so he may have assimilated a great deal of information about the Klingons....anything that was not "classified" and that general viewers could read. Klingon proverbs would not be classified info.

Here he is with the viewer:

 

[Tenacity]

Ever been to Spain, go tell them they are not 'White'

And right after that travel to Mexico and tell a random group of young men in the streets that they are White.

Be sure to be wearing running shoes.

 

[Nerys Myk]

And right after that travel to Mexico and tell a random group of young men in the streets that they are White.

Be sure to be wearing running shoes.

Depends on who you ask and who does the asking. Mexicans of European descent
Though maybe Mexican census takers are also on the track team.

 

[Artoo Atari]

The Ferengi would have stripped the Botany Bay for parts and jettisoned the supermen into the cold of space. It is very cold in space...

I would love to watch the alternate universe episode in which that takes place.

 

[Mojochi]

(although I might point out that Ricardo Montalban's dark skin color in "Space Seed" was fake - IRL, he's just as white as Cumby).

I'm gonna go ahead & say... not so much

Ricky is kind of a Brandy Rose or Antique Brass in the above
and Bene is kind of a Maize or Cameo in his

 

[Brennyren]

Because the fucked up racial politics of the USA was/is based on the premise only Northern Europeans are white which is a load of crap. Ever been to Spain, go tell them they are not 'White' but 'Latino' or Hispanic, they will laugh in your face. (His parents were Spanish immigrants and I lived with one for 2 years). Indigenous people from Spain are not a separate race from people from England, France or Germany. No matter what Americans believe.

When I say I don't think Montalbán should be described as "white," it has nothing to do with how I, or any other contemporary Americans -- or indeed any Spaniards! -- define the term. It's because calling him "white" denies the truth of his life: how he lived and what he went through. He got none of the perks that were associated with being white; he was made to live with being "ethnic," "other," "non-white."

For most of the man's life, he fought against discrimination and stereotyping based on his ethnicity. To simply dismiss him as being "white," because that's how we describe light-skinned Latinos now, effectively erases his experience and invalidates his reality.

 

[Maurice]

Well, neither is more suitable than the other to play someone from the area of Punjab.

 

[Brennyren]

Well, neither is more suitable than the other to play someone from the area of Punjab.

That much is true. Khan could have been a nice meaty part for an Indian actor, though -- possibly a breakout role.

 

[Timo]

...Of course, Montalban's character being our "norm" for Khan N. Singh then makes us suspect some classic dishonesty from the get-go - with the superman choosing to be a Sikh the way Hitler chose to be an Aryan, or Shinzon chose to be a Reman.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[F. King Daniel]

While the idea that Ricardo Montelban could ever be identified as "from Northern India... probably a Sikh" at a glance is utterly ridiculous (my theory is that Historian McGivers earned her post on the Enterprise by collecting several cereal box tokens), he was engineered in a lab and thus his appearance (Mexican, British or whatever) is surely either a whim of his designer or a fluke of chemistry?

 

[Timo]

Oh, McGivers probably recognized the man at the first glance. Why wouldn't she? She had been painting his face on a canvas for the past few days or whatever!

(Or then she was a quick painter, with quick-drying colors, and/or a paint-by-numbers sheet for Famous Supermen of Yore. But her lying her eyes and ears full would seem consistent here. She's the one who first associates Khan with "great leaders of the past", rather than just "generic leader of a colony ship", in advance of the heroes.)

Her telling them the smooth-chinned man in the ponytail is a Sikh from northern India might then be our best indication that he never was. After all, this part is never corroborated by other evidence.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[johnnybear]

That would work, Shawn! Or he read it in one of the manuals before he became fatigued on The Enterprise or they lent him a book when they sent him to Ceti alpha V?
JB

Here is a good answer for that, JB. Khan was given access to the Enterprise's library computer, so he may have assimilated a great deal of information about the Klingons....anything that was not "classified" and that general viewers could read. Klingon proverbs would not be classified info.

Here he is with the viewer:

Think I already said that mate!
JB

 

[Shawnster]

Her telling them the smooth-chinned man in the ponytail is a Sikh from northern India might then be our best indication that he never was. After all, this part is never corroborated by other evidence.

Timo Saloniemi

KIRK: Name, Khan, as we know him today. (Spock changes the picture) Name, Khan Noonien Singh.
SPOCK: From 1992 through 1996, absolute ruler of more than a quarter of your world. From Asia through the Middle East.


While not "evidence" of origin, history shows that Khan ruled over the geographic region where Sikhs originated during the same time.

 

[Timo]

And dozens of other distinct originating regions for dozens of others subcultures. Perhaps he was "really" an Arab prince genetically?

("During the same time"? In the sense that the 20th century is the same as the 15th, from where Kirk is looking?)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Doc Mugatu]

To me it is not a racial issue. At least it shouldn't be, and I was surprised to learn here that it was. The problem with Cumberbatch was that of "presence" and of "machismo." Ricard Montalban had a charismatic machismo and presence that commanded not only respect but awe. That was most definitely lacking in Benedict Cumberbatch, who is more a cerebral presence than a physical one. As far as nationality, a total non-issue considering Kahn and Company (NOT a FOX news program) were genetically engineered, therefore, the cosmetic expression of their DNA would be meaningless.

 

[johnnybear]

I think Ricardo was more a nicer kind of actor who played the role in a believable way and like you say had charisma and style where as Cumberbatch is an actor who believes his own hype and probably drinks his own bath water! In other words he thinks he's a lot better than what he actually is and was so not the right actor for the role of Khan!
JB

 

[TrickyDickie]

I think Benedict is a decent person.

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-...gger-hero-baker-street-sherlock-a8385481.html

 

[Nyotarules]

I'm gonna go ahead & say... not so much

Ricky is kind of a Brandy Rose or Antique Brass in the above
and Bene is kind of a Maize or Cameo in his

This is no different with comparing light skinned Vanessa Williams with darker skinned Michelle Obama, both are Black Americans or Americans of African descent. Or comparing one biracial actress, Tori Bellisario whose phenotype is more like her white father, Donald Bellasario, to Traci Ellis Ross (another bi-racial actress) whose phenotype is closer to her black mother, Diana Ross. Both have one black parent.