True.
First Season 2 Images Arrive
- Thread starter Tuskin38
- Start date
I did a quick Gimp cut and paste mash up and yeah, the yellow eyes do add to the lizard rather than rodent quality.
If you look the differences between the TOS Klingons and the TMP Klingons the Saurian make ups are practically the same.
Two wrongs don't make a right? Honestly, if they just made him purple and toned down the paleo-scales, I'd be good.
The rubber mask was never meant to be seen up close, unlike, say, I dunno, every Klingon on DSC. Frankly, Saru is too rubbery for me. I don't get how G'Kar looked more lifelike 25 years ago than some of the stuff coming out of Trek today.
LMAO, are you serious?
Sure. Look at the subtle life-like wrinkles and asymmetries of both the latex and the paint job. Saru can look too unnaturally perfect and too plasticky, in the mouth especially. Plus the high-def cameras/televisions now capture the fake-ness of the latex and contact lenses, so they really should shoot him a bit further away or under better lighting or slap some filters on him, at times. I love him, but I'm often wishing they shot him better, or they used more gelatinous masks that look closer to the way real skin absorbs light, for example.
we see the Rigellian in ENT
Rigelians look like this
Canonically, we know the Rigel system includes more than one inhabited planet. Therefore, it is perfectly reasonable that it would be home (whether indigenous or adopted) to multiple species called Rigel(l)ians.
From Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens' The Art Of Star Trek (1997):
(In fact, over the years, the two spellings have been used inconsistently between scripts, and sometimes pronounced inconsistently onscreen as well, leading to utter mayhem on Memory Alpha that apparently still hasn't been sorted out years after someone overzealously tried to separate all the "Rigelian" references from all "Rigellian" ones...despite the fact that "Affliction" [ENT] and "Terra Prime" [ENT], with one's script using the former and the other's the latter, clearly depict the exact same race!
)If anything, I would think this was the redesign of the TMP turtles:
That particular individual was only referred to in the script as an "alien man" but others wearing this same makeup were referred as "Rigels" on call sheets for "Broken Bow" (ENT).
Incompatible how exactly? Have we been given any indication she is an artificial intelligence of any sort, let alone one that cannot be distinguished in any meaningful way from Soong's unique creations? I thought she was supposed to be a biological humanoid with synthetic augmentations, from what's been said behind the scenes.
I think you're thinking of David Gautreaux, who was originally to have played the Vulcan character Xon in Phase II and ended up playing Epsilon IX's Commander Branch in the film.That actor/character was originally going to be a new recurring character in the Phase-II TV show.
But got bumped to practically a background character when production switched to the movie.
They seem like the type who just might have had some...work done, no? Full-body electrolysis (a.k.a. the Caitian "bikini wax"), nosejobs, and ears bobbed? Nothing that would trouble cosmetic surgery of the period in the least. Or perhaps these twin litter-mates that Kirk picked up after their modeling gig simply happen to be half (or even three-quarters) human? Or their lineage included some ancestors of a Sphynx-like breed? In any case, if Caitians were to reappear, I'd assume they wouldn't look like that, but rather would be tweaked and updated yet again, quite probably with more recognizably feline features.Except modern Caitians look like this:
It's originally from the TAS writer's bible, which included a star map depicting Cait's location in the constellation of Lynx. (Thanks to @Therin of Andor for relaying that info here.)
Besides the general treatment of Spock as something of an exotic novelty as mentioned by others, I'd wager that many of those who drew such an implication might have drawn it from "Journey To Babel" (TOS):
AMANDA: You don't understand the Vulcan way, Captain. It's logical. It's a better way than ours. But it's not easy. It has kept Spock and Sarek from speaking as father and son for eighteen years.
KIRK: Spock is my best officer, and my friend.
AMANDA: I'm glad he has such a friend. It hasn't been easy on Spock. Neither human nor Vulcan. At home nowhere except Starfleet.
KIRK: I take it that Spock disagreed with his father on a choice of career.
AMANDA: My husband has nothing against Starfleet. But Vulcans believe that peace should not depend on force.
KIRK: Starfleet force is used only as a last resort. We're an instrument of civilization. And it's a better opportunity for a scientist to study the universe than he could get at the Vulcan Science Academy.
AMANDA: Perhaps. But Sarek wanted Spock to follow his teachings, as Sarek followed the teachings of his own father.
KIRK: Spock is my best officer, and my friend.
AMANDA: I'm glad he has such a friend. It hasn't been easy on Spock. Neither human nor Vulcan. At home nowhere except Starfleet.
KIRK: I take it that Spock disagreed with his father on a choice of career.
AMANDA: My husband has nothing against Starfleet. But Vulcans believe that peace should not depend on force.
KIRK: Starfleet force is used only as a last resort. We're an instrument of civilization. And it's a better opportunity for a scientist to study the universe than he could get at the Vulcan Science Academy.
AMANDA: Perhaps. But Sarek wanted Spock to follow his teachings, as Sarek followed the teachings of his own father.
Without the context of later stories, it does rather make it sound as if it's at the very least unusual for Vulcans to serve in Starfleet. (Of course, with such context, it's clear that at least some of the above must be Amanda's misinterpretation or mischaracterization anyway, based on her incomplete knowledge and understanding of what really happened as depicted in "Lethe" [DSC], and quite possibly more broadly of Vulcan nature and culture as well.)
I actually quite liked how ST'09 handled this, by saying that he was the first Vulcan ever to decline acceptance to the Science Academy. Or rather, by virtue of his half-human parentage, technically wasn't...
As someone else already pointed out, she wasn't said to be the youngest captain ever per se; rather, it was said that she made captain the fastest. But in any case, even if she were the youngest ever from the standpoint of 2364, this would in no way preclude Kirk from having been the youngest ever from that of a century earlier.
What was indeed intended by the TOS production staff, but never made explicit onscreen (despite being generally supported by the casting of every other captain as older than he) is that Kirk was the youngest to be assigned command of a Starship (by which, at that time, they meant specifically ships like the Enterprise). From Stephen E. Whitfield and Gene Roddenberry's The Making Of Star Trek (1968):
"He appears to be thirty-four years old and was born in a small town in the State of Iowa. He entered Space Academy as a midshipman at the age of seventeen, the minimum age allowed. He attended the Academy and finished in the top five percent. Kirk rose very rapidly through the ranks and received his first command (the equivalent of a destroyer-class spaceship) while still quite young. Kirk has been in command of the Enterprise for more than four years and was the youngest Academy graduate ever to have been assigned as a Starship Command Captain."
Upperclassman yes, teacher no. You might be conflating him with Ben Finney from "Court Martial" (TOS), who was an instructor and Kirk's friend during the same period, with whom Kirk would some years later serve as an ensign aboard the Republic (and eventually also on the Enterprise). Later, as a Lieutentant, Kirk too was himself an instructor at the Academy, which seems to be when he developed a similar friendship with his own student Gary Mitchell from "Where No Man Has Gone Before" (TOS), although the two do seem to have had some prior acquaintance dating back to this time.
If so, they'd better be careful, because it's outdated and clearly off on at least a few points. Dating of TOS-TMP is a particular issue, for example. Astounding and frustrating that even the most recent edition of the Encyclopedia fails to rectify it after all this time (or so I've been told).
Where are you getting that from? I see no reason to think they have any intention of committing to the tact that this is what the TOS Enterprise "always" looked like. Indeed the opposite; they elected to explicitly remind us onscreen that ships undergo refits in "Despite Yourself" (DSC), and behind the scenes specifically rationalized why the Defiant's configuration would differ from her previous appearance in ENT, and in overhauling the Enterprise gave at least passing thought as to how it might physically change over time into the original series version. So at a minimum, they're hedging on that one.
It's already long been widely accepted in fandom, based on the modifications made to the shooting model(s) between first pilot, second pilot, and series proper, that the Enterprise had other refits causing alteration of her appearance prior to the one in TMP. The configuration we see in DSC may replace one or both of the pilot configurations, or it may simply interpose itself in between them, but in either case it wouldn't replace the series version itself. Not from what we've seen and been told thus far, anyway.
Here you go, from Susan Sackett & Gene Roddenberry's The Making of Star Trek: The Motion Picture (1980):
"Fletcher not only devised uniforms for all the crew, but, as with most military services, there are several classes of uniforms.
Dress uniforms are worn only on formal occasions and at Starfleet Headquarters. The best example of this can be seen in Admiral Kirk’s uniform worn at the beginning of the movie, with Bill Shatner wearing the crisp loden green and white uniform.
Class A uniforms are double-stitched and have gold braid designating rank. Some of them have open necklines or other variations, as is true in the military services of our century. Rank designation became a point of confusion because of a decision made years before on the television series uniform. It was felt that the traditional four gold stripes of ship captain’s rank was too blatantly “militaristic”-looking for a 23rd-century paramilitary starship. Accordingly, the captain was held to a couple of stripes and lower ranks to even less. It was decided to continue this way for the movie. But many of the new Star Trek staff (and even Bob Fletcher himself) kept getting the 20th and 23rd centuries confused.
B uniforms utilize shirts which look similar to evolved T-shirts. These are white, beige, and pale brown, and use shoulder boards to indicate rank and service division (through color designations).
Uniforms worn on the bridge are of three general classifications. All command officers generally wear the blue-gray uniforms (Kirk, Spock, Decker, Scotty, McCoy); other bridge officers like Sulu and Chekov wear beige; crew personnel who are usually never on the bridge except for emergencies wear brown.
In addition to these uniforms, there are jump suits in white, brown, beige, gray, and sage green (this color worn in Earth scenes only). These are a kind of work suit, and have the only pockets of any Star Trek costumes, since these outfits are designed to be utilitarian. The jump suits are also designed to fit like a second skin, moving and bending with the person wearing them. Bob chose a special heavy-weight spandex, which he admits was hell to sew, and required the use of a special ballpoint needle to penetrate the material.
Other costumes included leisure wear, field jackets (these are worn in the final scenes at the site of Voyager 6) and space suits."
Dress uniforms are worn only on formal occasions and at Starfleet Headquarters. The best example of this can be seen in Admiral Kirk’s uniform worn at the beginning of the movie, with Bill Shatner wearing the crisp loden green and white uniform.
Class A uniforms are double-stitched and have gold braid designating rank. Some of them have open necklines or other variations, as is true in the military services of our century. Rank designation became a point of confusion because of a decision made years before on the television series uniform. It was felt that the traditional four gold stripes of ship captain’s rank was too blatantly “militaristic”-looking for a 23rd-century paramilitary starship. Accordingly, the captain was held to a couple of stripes and lower ranks to even less. It was decided to continue this way for the movie. But many of the new Star Trek staff (and even Bob Fletcher himself) kept getting the 20th and 23rd centuries confused.
B uniforms utilize shirts which look similar to evolved T-shirts. These are white, beige, and pale brown, and use shoulder boards to indicate rank and service division (through color designations).
Uniforms worn on the bridge are of three general classifications. All command officers generally wear the blue-gray uniforms (Kirk, Spock, Decker, Scotty, McCoy); other bridge officers like Sulu and Chekov wear beige; crew personnel who are usually never on the bridge except for emergencies wear brown.
In addition to these uniforms, there are jump suits in white, brown, beige, gray, and sage green (this color worn in Earth scenes only). These are a kind of work suit, and have the only pockets of any Star Trek costumes, since these outfits are designed to be utilitarian. The jump suits are also designed to fit like a second skin, moving and bending with the person wearing them. Bob chose a special heavy-weight spandex, which he admits was hell to sew, and required the use of a special ballpoint needle to penetrate the material.
Other costumes included leisure wear, field jackets (these are worn in the final scenes at the site of Voyager 6) and space suits."
Not that it leaves no questions unanswered, but it gives some insight.
-MMoM
The long post was hard to attribute to the right people. Re Billy Van Zandt's Rhaandarite character, as mentioned in DavyNY's comment:
I interviewed Billy in 1984. He told me that his character's species was originally called a Vegan (and "high-domed Vegans" are mentioned in the scripted stage directions of TMP), but became Rhaandarite as Robert Wise worked out which aliens he required for the movie. Rhaandarites, K'Normians, Andorians, Deltans, Vulcans - and the wolvish character, Worene (created by by Paula Crist) - were the only aliens deliberately created who would have been able to deliver lines. All the rest were over-the-head latex masks.
Billy and Paula both screen-tested as bridge alien. Billy won and Paula was compensated by being able to perform her character on the rec deck. (Gene had previously seen her as a male version of Worene at a big SF convention.)
As the filming went on, the extras on the bridge began to fantasise about their new careers if TMP did indeed lead to a revival of the shelved "Phase II" TV series (or telemovies, or another motion picture). After the loss of Ilia (who had originally survived "In Thy Image"), and with Nimoy unlikely to return, Billy had a good possibility of becoming resident bridge alien. So it wasn't that he was shunted aside when "In Thy Image" became TMP. The movie had started filming before the final third of the script was even written. Everyone assumed some business would arise for Billy's character.
As they got closer to the end, it became obvious that his character was not going to get any more involvement. ("Let me get killed by the probe!" he would plead, and it was Shatner who suggested handing Billy his field jacket at the end. Three months wearing that appliance and painted glass contact lenses, all for two lines of dialog that got cut for opening night anyway... Cruel!)
Thank you for the reference. But, there is little intuitive about it from watching the film. A similar complaint could be levied against the Monster Maroons as the insignia is very difficult to read.
Here's another thing about the colors. While the uniform color may indicate a character's role to some degree, the actual division colors are located on the insignia badge and shoulder marks.
Here's another thing about the colors. While the uniform color may indicate a character's role to some degree, the actual division colors are located on the insignia badge and shoulder marks.
TMP was by far the worst offender in the space of clarity on screen. Now to its credit or detriment it wasn't aiming for uniformity either. The idea was to look more like scientists in space versus uniformed soldiers which is why there are so many variants and sterile palettes seen on screen instead of the more traditional military styling and visual brevity. The concept of a more informal Starfleet that explores and does fancy stuff like touch V'ger over blasting things and so such. I appreciate what they wanted to convey but god is it gross to look at.
Right. But it is still confusing at first watch.Here's another thing about the colors. While the uniform color may indicate a character's role to some degree, the actual division colors are located on the insignia badge and shoulder marks.
I am actually one of the few people who like TMP uniforms, but I agree that there was too much variation. They should have stuck with white and grey uniform variants, and three service colours for badges (preferably TOS colours.) This would have given more uniform look, while simultaneously being more clear.
I have warmed to them over the years, to be sure. But, going from TOS to TMP was a struggle for my mind. I love uniforms, but it could have been done better.
I agree with you...
Again. It was bound to happen 
Alien Steven Wright was in Security?Here's another thing about the colors. While the uniform color may indicate a character's role to some degree, the actual division colors are located on the insignia badge and shoulder marks.
Science blue became science orange in TMP to avoid insignia patches and epaulettes disappearing in possible bluescreen scenes. For TNG, that standard blue got colour-shifted to teal for the same reason.
You mean Billy Van Zandt's Rhaandarite character? Yes, he manned the Internal Security console on the bridge, so had a grey insignia patch. (Billy's brother is "Miami" Steve Van Zandt, aka Little Steven.)
I like the colors in this image:
Of course, we can ditch the idea of "Science orange" if we wish, and instead say that orange stood for visitors. After all, the other colors remain when the next batch of movies rolls in (even if reshuffled in a way that is equally poorly explicated and equally easily interpreted whichever way we want to), but orange is nowhere to be seen.
But changing meanings for uniform colors is a Trek staple consciously promoted by TPTB. A trio of colors is common, but the exact colors involved change a couple of times per century at least, and also undergo permutations where, say, command can be goldish, reddish or blueish in turn. TMP isn't a great offender in the context, but IMHO something of a false start anyway.
Timo Saloniemi
That would suggest that Kirk was in command of the Enterprise for at least a bit before they started their Five Year Mission that ended in 2270. Like sometime between 2262 and 2264. (say 2263 on average). Season Two of Discovery will likely take place mostly in 2258, so Pike can return to the Enterprise by 2259 and complete more or less another Five Year Mission before being promoted to Fleet Captain (assuming this mission on Discovery isn't what earns him that promotion), and later recommending Kirk to become captain of the Enterprise. Though it also suggests we might see a Captain Kirk running around in a smaller ship at some point after he leaves USS Farragut (the incident with the Cloud should be either soon or have happen already).
