Spoilers General Disco Chat Thread

[Jadeb]

In terms of a hypothetical original ending, there are a lot of possibilities. Maybe the showrunners wanted something which would have taken a much higher budget to pull off. Maybe they originally planned to extend the Klingon War into the second season a bit (e.g, they hadn't figured out how to circle the square yet) and CBS came on them like a ton of bricks. Maybe their planned ending either openly broke canon, or was vetoed as too grimdark. The one thing we do know is the last 1-2 episodes were not filmed yet when the pilot aired, meaning it was the first time that CBS got real outside feedback on the series - feedback which could have changed their plans. Particularly because the "new Klingons" were the most heavily panned element of the pilot, and the idea of extending Klingon-heavy content into Season 2 might have freaked CBS out.

I agree there were structural issues with the show all the way through, most of which boiled down to writing. But they didn't have the weirdly slapdash, perfunctory feeling the end of the season finale had. Basically the whole "rah rah Starfleet bland optimism about the human condition" came out of nowhere. Then they set up the final scene to essentially say "okay, we admit that was all shit - just forget about it - but look, here's the Enterprise!" It really looked like to me someone had sat Berg/Harberts down and told them they had made a total mess of the season, and demanded they do a 180 and start the second season with an almost clean slate.

Maybe I'm too cynical, but I thought the "rah-rah Starfleet" speech was pre-ordained from the very beginning, and the writing of it didn't strike me as much more heavy-handed than a lot of what the show served up previously, such as the Sudden Tears for the Tardigrade. I complained about the use of narrative shortcuts all season, so I can't say I was shocked when they used them in the finale.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I kind of want to see this now.

Of course only me and probably five other people would want to see a Star Trek Prison Show. But I don't care. I need to get my kicks in somehow between seasons of Orange Is the New Black.

Jimmy, lad. Good ta see you.

 

[Uhura's Song]

Maybe I'm too cynical, but I thought the "rah-rah Starfleet" speech was pre-ordained from the very beginning, and the writing of it didn't strike me as much more heavy-handed than a lot of what the show served up previously, such as the Sudden Tears for the Tardigrade. I complained about the use of narrative shortcuts all season, so I can't say I was shocked when they used them in the finale.

Agree on the pre-ordained part.

I think the intent was for the trip to MU to kind of shock them back to their senses & make them aware they had drifted too far from Star Fleet's principles. Be it from the war, desperation, Lorca, or even thinking it was in the interest of the greater good.

However, the way it came out was jarring. There was precious little introspection on if they were doing the right thing or going about stuff in the right way. Some from Tilly & Burnham, a tad from Cornwell, but hardly any from Saru or Tyler.

So when the change of directions came, they seemed to come from nowhere and it seemed more jarring. At least to me.

Though I have only watched once.

 

[eschaton]

Maybe I'm too cynical, but I thought the "rah-rah Starfleet" speech was pre-ordained from the very beginning, and the writing of it didn't strike me as much more heavy-handed than a lot of what the show served up previously, such as the Sudden Tears for the Tardigrade. I complained about the use of narrative shortcuts all season, so I can't say I was shocked when they used them in the finale.

The main problem I have with the ending of the series is it touched on themes - like Burnham's fear of Klingons, and her purported "militaristic" attitude - which had been entirely ignored from the second episode onward. It really felt like the showrunners somehow lost the thread over the course of the season, went back and watched the beginning, and realized there were all of these dangling plot lines they had to weave back in at the last possible second.

In contrast, the most interesting part of Burnham by far - the conflict between her Vulcan upbringing and being a human who was a total emotional mess - was just quietly dropped during the mid-season break and never really brought up again.

 

[Jadeb]

The main problem I have with the ending of the series is it touched on themes - like Burnham's fear of Klingons, and her purported "militaristic" attitude - which had been entirely ignored from the second episode onward. It really felt like the showrunners somehow lost the thread over the course of the season, went back and watched the beginning, and realized there were all of these dangling plot lines they had to weave back in at the last possible second.

In contrast, the most interesting part of Burnham by far - the conflict between her Vulcan upbringing and being a human who was a total emotional mess - was just quietly dropped during the mid-season break and never really brought up again.

The whole season seems like a jumble of ideas to me, and there's no way to parse whether that was the result of too many cooks, too much CBS meddling, too much behind-the-scenes turmoil or of the writers biting off more than they could chew. My guess is the answer is at least a little of all four.

In that sense, Burnham is emblematic of the season as a whole: A collection of potentially interesting ideas that never really get fleshed out on screen.

 

[Lord Garth]

I think they could've benefited from a 20-episode season, which would've only been five more than what there was.

An observation I have about "Lethe" that's not enough to justify a thread of its own: When Lorca is alone with Cornwell, I noticed that Cornwell never brings up anything specific from The Old Days. (i.e. "Remember that time when... ?" or "Remember that crewman from that ship?") I was specifically looking out for this, when I was re-watching, after the reveal that Lorca was from the Mirror Universe. A nice touch that wouldn't be picked up upon at first.

Usually, when I'm hanging out with friends from The Old Days (usually college), we'll reminisce about something from Back Then, but not always. Lorca was lucky it was one of those not-always-times. Cornwell was still suspicious of him, but it could've been a lot worse.

 

[XCV330]

I think they could've benefited from a 20-episode season, which would've only been five more than what there was.

An observation I have about "Lethe" that's not enough to justify a thread of its own: When Lorca is alone with Cornwell, I noticed that Cornwell never brings up anything specific from The Old Days. (i.e. "Remember that time when... ?" or "Remember that crewman from that ship?") I was specifically looking out for this, when I was re-watching, after the reveal that Lorca was from the Mirror Universe. A nice touch that wouldn't be picked up upon at first.

Usually, when I'm hanging out with friends from The Old Days (usually college), we'll reminisce about something from Back Then, but not always. Lorca was lucky it was one of those not-always-times. Cornwell was still suspicious of him, but it could've been a lot worse.

Perhaps every time she brought up a past memory, he brought out another liquor bottle.

 

[Lord Garth]

Perhaps every time she brought up a past memory, he brought out another liquor bottle.

There's also the old, "Yup, yup."

Cornwell: "Remember Chuck?"
Lorca: "Yup, yup!"
Cornwell: "He's an MD now! Can you imagine that?"
Lorca: "Who would've thought?"
Cornwell: "I know! Right?!"

Just echo back everything she says. And if someone says "Yup!" to me in response to this post...

 

[XCV330]

There's also the old, "Yup, yup."

Cornwell: "Remember Chuck?"
Lorca: "Yup, yup!"
Cornwell: "He's an MD now! Can you imagine that?"
Lorca: "Who would've thought?"
Cornwell: "I know! Right?!"

Just echo back everything she says. And if someone says "Yup!" to me in response to this post...

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Replace Jenny with Admiral Cornwell, maybe the conversation went like this when Lorca crossed over

 

[Ralphis]

Anything goes?

I get the whole serialized television thing, and that some of the best shows on TV today are serialized, but I miss the old-school episodic approach. I'm not saying go all the way back to that, but maybe go somewhere like 50/50. Have a new adventure every week, but have the actions and experiences of the characters carry over to the next episode and so-on. The serialization would be through the characters and their relationships. That's not saying you couldn't have a reoccurring arc, like the CW superhero shows, but... I don't know.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed Disco, and if it's between having it exactly as it is or not having it all... give me 11 super-serialized Disco seasons! But moving forward, I'd love to see maybe, just a handful of stand-alone episodes.

Ok, y'alls can file this post under the "I'm glad fans don't control the franchise" category. It's ok. I don't mind.

 

[Vger23]

Perhaps every time she brought up a past memory, he brought out another liquor bottle.

Admittedly, a good strategy in any circumstance

 

[Vger23]

Anything goes?

I get the whole serialized television thing, and that some of the best shows on TV today are serialized, but I miss the old-school episodic approach. I'm not saying go all the way back to that, but maybe go somewhere like 50/50. Have a new adventure every week, but have the actions and experiences of the characters carry over to the next episode and so-on. The serialization would be through the characters and their relationships. That's not saying you couldn't have a reoccurring arc, like the CW superhero shows, but... I don't know.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed Disco, and if it's between having it exactly as it is or not having it all... give me 11 super-serialized Disco seasons! But moving forward, I'd love to see maybe, just a handful of stand-alone episodes.

Ok, y'alls can file this post under the "I'm glad fans don't control the franchise" category. It's ok. I don't mind.

I think the only reason they can't do this is the limited number of episodes per season. If it were 24+ episodes, you'd probably see more of what you are suggesting because they can afford to go "off course" more often. With 13-15...they're pretty much stuck being committed to the arc.

 

[Jadeb]

The good news is that they've already threatened to destroy the entire multiverse, so they can't go much bigger.

 

[Vger23]

The good news is that they've already threatened to destroy the entire multiverse, so they can't go much bigger.

Yeah, that really would have ruined everything.

 

[Jadeb]

Yeah, that really would have ruined everything.

Would’ve been a bummer for sure

 

[fireproof78]

Yeah, that really would have ruined everything.

Well, Bennie Russel would just have to start a new series.

 

[Ralphis]

I think the only reason they can't do this is the limited number of episodes per season. If it were 24+ episodes, you'd probably see more of what you are suggesting because they can afford to go "off course" more often.

I thought I had wrote something in my original post about expanding to 18-22 episodes, but obviously, I didn't. But yes, you'd certainly have to expand the episode order. You are right about that.

 

[tomalak301]

I found out yesterday that pretty much the entire cast of Discovery is going to be at STLV. I think after Expanse season 2 it might be time for a Discovery rewatch. Maybe given the long amount if time, I might warm up to it better. I still wish Into The Forest I Go would have been the season finale and the Mirror universe would have basically been season 2. Then we could have gotten to know these characters more and the Klingon War arc would have developed better.

 

[Vger23]

I found out yesterday that pretty much the entire cast of Discovery is going to be at STLV. I think after Expanse season 2 it might be time for a Discovery rewatch. Maybe given the long amount if time, I might warm up to it better. I still wish Into The Forest I Go would have been the season finale and the Mirror universe would have basically been season 2. Then we could have gotten to know these characters more and the Klingon War arc would have developed better.

I actually think that if each episode was longer, like fifty five or sixty min as opposed to fourty to fourty five...that could have solved some of that. I think they were very self conscious of pacing and failed to develop some things that could have really paid off.

Just ten min more per episode is another hundred fifty mins to the total season run time, or the equivalent of two and a half more episodes. That could have made a huge difference in fleshing out the arc and characters better.

 

[tomalak301]

I actually think that if each episode was longer, like fifty five or sixty min as opposed to fourty to fourty five...that could have solved some of that. I think they were very self conscious of pacing and failed to develop some things that could have really paid off.

Just ten min more per episode is another hundred fifty mins to the total season run time, or the equivalent of two and a half more episodes. That could have made a huge difference in fleshing out the arc and characters better.

That was my biggest gripe with the CBS All Access experience, how variable the episode times were. Wasn't there an episode late in the season that was 38 minutes long? That's like the shortest live action episode in the franchise. You're on a streaming service. All the episodes should be 50 to 60 minutes long tops. And then the big episodes could be longer.