Poll Do you consider Discovery to truly be in the Prime Timeline at this point?

[BillJ]

Everyone in 1990: "Sarek" was a powerful episode! Such strong performances from Patrick Stewart and Mark Leonard! It was so moving when Sarek shed a tear during the concert.

BillJ: Pffft. Fuckin' fanwank. Come up with something original!

Try again? It was nearly three full years before they centered a story around a TOS character. Which actually made it feel special when it happened. They also waited until they had built their show. TNG survived nicely without having to constantly lean on TOS for story material.

 

[jaime]

Hmm. You make an interesting case for some Biblical symbolism here, and I can't just dismiss it out of hand, since although I admit I hadn't considered it before, giving two main characters the names "Michael" and "Gabriel" seems unlikely to be just a coincidence.

However, IMHO such Biblical symbolism as there is to be found in the show is, frankly, superficial. Whatever the writers may have been trying to achieve, as @jaime put it, they fumbled it. It doesn't convey any meaningful message.


Even if it did assert that, what of it? That's nothing new or insightful; Trek has always taken it as a given that traditional religious lessons are wrong. I think it's safe to suppose that the population of people who regularly read or watch SF already contains a far higher proportion of atheists than the general population.


Hmm. I honestly don't see it, so I'm genuinely curious. How so? (To my eye, Michael's circumstances in S1 are so painfully contrived that they stand apart from anything an ordinary person could relate to.)


Very well-put. While a story's plot should certainly be in service of a thought-provoking theme, it can't really accomplish that unless the plot itself actually comes together in a sensible way. None of DSC's plots really managed that.

Actually Star Trek actually supports and recontextualises many judeo-christian religious lessons. The Federation is based on ‘love thy neighbour’ and ‘do unto others’, and there’s plenty of evidence that allows it to be read as a future where religion still exists and has some use for it’s peoples. There’s the ambiguous...the one god will do...the ‘son’ worshippers...and there’s the overt ‘McCoy son of David’ , the existence of the soul (katra te al) ..there’s the chapel. There’s the alien races with their religions, from the not so similar beliefs of the Bajorans, to the outright symbolism of Surak as a Vulcan Jesus figure. It dances on a pin head, but perhaps unsurprisingly for something that merchandised IDIC, it’s ambiguous enough to be a broad church.
In terms of religious symbolism, sometimes intended, sometimes not, I refer you to the three wise men being guided to the virgin birth by a light that appeared in the sky. Or as it’s also known, Star Trek The Motion Picture.

 

[Jinn]

there’s the chapel.

I hear she was offered the Emmisary job before the sisko showed up, but apparantly she declined.

 

[fireproof78]

Hmm. I honestly don't see it, so I'm genuinely curious. How so? (To my eye, Michael's circumstances in S1 are so painfully contrived that they stand apart from anything an ordinary person could relate to.)

Having met people who have been traumatized from a young age and had to rely on people outside their family to survive, I cannot help but empathize with her and her struggles to find her identity.

 

[jaime]

I hear she was offered the Emmisary job before the sisko showed up, but apparantly she declined.

Lol. As I wrote that, I had a feeling someone was going to look at it that way. I also suspected it would be you. XD

 

[Jinn]

Lol. As I wrote that, I had a feeling someone was going to look at it that way. I also suspected it would be you. XD

Good, good, posters start to associate me with bad jokes. My plan is going wunderful thus far!

 

[jaime]

Having met people who have been traumatized from a young age and had to rely on people outside their family to survive, I cannot help but empathize with her and her struggles to find her identity.

For sure. But...the character trying to find their identity, often with a foot in two worlds, is as old as Trek. Spock. Sybok. Worf. Deanna. Data. Odo. Sisko. Ezri Dax. Bashir to an extent. Seven of Nine. B’Ellana.
She’s a distillation, rubbed down with some Tom Paris sandpaper and varnished with a hint of Saavik Wax.

 

[jaime]

Good, good, posters start to associate me with bad jokes. My plan is going wunderful thus far!

Stick around, I too find it hard to resist a pun or worse. It’s a borderline religious belief that jokes are not to be avoided. I would propose adopting Sybok as some kind of patron saint or icon, but Star Trek V gets enough hate without me adding to its burden.
Is there a high five emote? I feel one is needed.

 

[Jinn]

Stick around, I too find it hard to resist a pun or worse. It’s a borderline religious belief that jokes are not to be avoided. I would propose adopting Sybok as some kind of patron saint or icon, but Star Trek V gets enough hate without me adding to its burden.
Is there a high five emote? I feel one is needed.

The beer one is probably the closest thing we've got.

 

[fireproof78]

For sure. But...the character trying to find their identity, often with a foot in two worlds, is as old as Trek. Spock. Sybok. Worf. Deanna. Data. Odo. Sisko. Ezri Dax. Bashir to an extent. Seven of Nine. B’Ellana.
She’s a distillation, rubbed down with some Tom Paris sandpaper and varnished with a hint of Saavik Wax.

Disagree since she doesn't fully fit in either world. Each of the listed characters have a culture that they fully identify with or emulate. Michael vacislates (which is off putting to some) between what she wants. Seven of Nine or Worf would be probably the closest to Michael in terms of background and trauma, but she lacks the confidence that either of those characters exude.

 

[jaime]

The beer one is probably the closest thing we've got.

It works for me

 

[jaime]

Disagree since she doesn't fully fit in either world. Each of the listed characters have a culture that they fully identify with or emulate. Michael vacislates (which is off putting to some) between what she wants. Seven of Nine or Worf would be probably the closest to Michael in terms of background and trauma, but she lacks the confidence that either of those characters exude.

Odo? He is the definition of torn between two cultures once he finds the founders.
Burnham seems pretty confident, only when faced with specific moments does she not act confidently. Like Spock basically.

 

[fireproof78]

Odo? He is the definition of torn between two cultures once he finds the founders.
Burnham seems pretty confident, only when faced with specific moments does she not act confidently. Like Spock basically.

I forgot Odo. My bad. I do agree.

I don't agree that Michael is like Spock. I think she is forging her own way and lacks the confidence or certainty at times, unless there is a moral question. In moral questions, she is more black and white. Which, in my opinion, is more interesting for her as a character. I also know I am in the minority on for liking Michael.

 

[jaime]

I forgot Odo. My bad. I do agree.

I don't agree that Michael is like Spock. I think she is forging her own way and lacks the confidence or certainty at times, unless there is a moral question. In moral questions, she is more black and white. Which, in my opinion, is more interesting for her as a character. I also know I am in the minority on for liking Michael.

No no, she’s like Spock in that key pressures are what causes her masks to slip. Klingons. Georgiou. Parental figures in general. Daddy Issues that Tróia dodged a bullet on.

 

[fireproof78]

No no, she’s like Spock in that key pressures are what causes her masks to slip. Klingons. Georgiou. Parental figures in general. Daddy Issues that Tróia dodged a bullet on.

I disagree. Her lack of confidence stands out far more than Spock's does. Which, I would.

And, who is Troia?

 

[jaime]

I disagree. Her lack of confidence stands out far more than Spock's does. Which, I would.

And, who is Troia?

Deanna, after my spellcheck ate her.

 

[fireproof78]

Deanna, after my spellcheck ate her.

I had a feeling. Also, what a fate. Stupid spell check monster

 

[Tuskin38]

But did she have mint frosting?

 

[Vger23]

I forgot Odo. My bad. I do agree.

I don't agree that Michael is like Spock. I think she is forging her own way and lacks the confidence or certainty at times, unless there is a moral question. In moral questions, she is more black and white. Which, in my opinion, is more interesting for her as a character. I also know I am in the minority on for liking Michael.

I also like Michael. The character is much more dynamic, lifelike, and far less cookie-cutter than the standard post-TOS "two worlds" characters. Seems far more like a real person than a paint-by-numbers character (see Data, Seven, etc.)

 

[ITDUDE]

"TATV..."

Why did you have to go there